New AutoPilot is horrible after update

[David99]

The hands on wheel requirement would be much better if it wasn't based on turning force. It's a less than ideal way to detect hands on the wheel. Requiring turning force when no steering action is required nor wanted is per definition a bad idea, especially when the same action, just a little more force, is used to disengage AP. To make it worse, in curves the force to disengage is lower in one direction than the other. Hands on wheel should be hands on wheel, not 'keep on fighting AP a little'. It's like asking the driver to keep pushing the brake pedal a little (to show readiness to stop the car) even though I don't want to slow down. It just doesn't make sense to use an essential control input that is not wanted to detect presence.

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

For many years I have driven with autopilot and then FSDb using one hand at 5 o’clock or 7 o’clock to provide continuous torque. Never was bothered by nags. Now, as of the holiday update, I get the "Apply slight turning force to steering wheel" nag even though I am already dong so. I have tried increasing the torque when I see the message but that did nothing. However, momentarily reversing the torque dismisses the nag instantly.

The nag appears to happen every 2-3 minutes or so but I haven’t had a chance to do much experimenting. For example, I wonder if there is any difference between providing continuous torque vs none at all.

This is in my 2018 3 and my 1019 X, neither of which have cabin cameras.

2023.44.30.8, FSDb v11.4.9

 

[Maki22]

For many years I have driven with autopilot and then FSDb using one hand at 5 o’clock or 7 o’clock to provide continuous torque. Never was bothered by nags. Now, as of the holiday update, I get the "Apply slight turning force to steering wheel" nag even though I am already dong so. I have tried increasing the torque when I see the message but that did nothing. However, momentarily reversing the torque dismisses the nag instantly.

The nag appears to happen every 2-3 minutes or so but I haven’t had a chance to do much experimenting. For example, I wonder if there is any difference between providing continuous torque vs none at all.

This is in my 2018 3 and my 1019 X, neither of which have cabin cameras.

2023.44.30.8, FSDb v11.4.9

You can thank all the people that adds weights to the wheel to apply constant torque on it while they are distracted on Facebook or Instagram for that change…(moderator edit)…They shouldn't be on the road in the first place if they can't keep their eyes away from the phone while driving.

 

[DrChaos]

The hands on wheel requirement would be much better if it wasn't based on turning force. It's a less than ideal way to detect hands on the wheel. Requiring turning force when no steering action is required nor wanted is per definition a bad idea, especially when the same action, just a little more force, is used to disengage AP. To make it worse, in curves the force to disengage is lower in one direction than the other. Hands on wheel should be hands on wheel, not 'keep on fighting AP a little'. It's like asking the driver to keep pushing the brake pedal a little (to show readiness to stop the car) even though I don't want to slow down. It just doesn't make sense to use an essential control input that is not wanted to detect presence.

it's annoying, but less annoying than it used to be. For me I find the ideal denag is some friction from knee to wheel as it automatically drives, or slight friction from fingers as the wheel turns through them, and if that doesn't work, then I de-nag by twiddling the volume or speed roller wheel with thumb.

In other words, dynamic sliding friction, and not "holding on" to the wheel literally. Adopting the "holding on to wheel" strategy that it suggests in fact makes it more likely to break out of AP/FSD, so don't do that. Once you get there, then you'll hold on to the wheel only to intentionally break/disengage.

I agree it's substandard---it's another example of Tesla cheapening out and not adopting the standard solution other automakers adopt: capacitive touch sensor dedicated for this task.

 

[dgatwood]

The nag appears to happen every 2-3 minutes or so but I haven’t had a chance to do much experimenting. For example, I wonder if there is any difference between providing continuous torque vs none at all.

This is in my 2018 3 and my 1019 X, neither of which have cabin cameras.

2023.44.30.8, FSDb v11.4.9

I've seen these problems with the new release on enough different vehicles (both with and without cameras) to conclude that this update is fundamentally flawed, and distracting to the point of being dangerous. NHTSA should force a recall of their recall.

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

I've seen these problems with the new release on enough different vehicles (both with and without cameras) to conclude that this update is fundamentally flawed, and distracting to the point of being dangerous. NHTSA should force a recall of their recall.

Yeah, if I wasn’t so lazy, I’d file a NHTSA complaint. But I am.

 

[DrChaos]

For many years I have driven with autopilot and then FSDb using one hand at 5 o’clock or 7 o’clock to provide continuous torque. Never was bothered by nags. Now, as of the holiday update, I get the "Apply slight turning force to steering wheel" nag even though I am already dong so. I have tried increasing the torque when I see the message but that did nothing. However, momentarily reversing the torque dismisses the nag instantly.

I think we can guess what its algorithm is then. It's probably nulling out as 'zero' any mid-long term average (e.g. timescale of a couple of minutes), which would eliminate calibration differences or long term drift in the sensors if the "zero point" isn't at exactly zero.

Your hands are so smooth and constant, that it doesn't notice as you're giving a near constant torque. This algorithm is also consistent with a detection/lockout of a weight which would also impart a constant torque, and that may also be a NHTSA requirement.

If I were to implement something I'd make a passband digital filter of the raw sensor signal that would pass 0.5 to 5 Hz or so which would be frequency that a human jiggling or providing resistance actively would do.

It's probably looking at *change* in wheel torque now, and this may be an update that affects your behavior more than other people's.

Personally, I jiggle the volume button wheel more often to dismiss the nag instead of steering torque (though every once in a while it will not accept that jiggle and wants a real steering wheel torque). I didn't find the new update to be any worse, and may be slightly better, in nag annoyance.

Also without cabin cameras I bet it requires a wheel nag more often for you than those of us which have cameras (I find it nags for looking away more frequently than it does for failing to touch the wheel).

 

[primedive]

I actually find the nagging tolerable with the cabin camera covered. It still wants me to jiggle the wheel every now and then even though my hands are already on the wheel, but I can look at the navigation or down the road without being hassled.

 

[David99]

I actually find the nagging tolerable with the cabin camera covered. It still wants me to jiggle the wheel every now and then even though my hands are already on the wheel, but I can look at the navigation or down the road without being hassled.

What vehicles do you have and what hardware version? If I cover my cabin camera, AP yells at me and doesn't work.

 

[MP3Mike]

What vehicles do you have and what hardware version? If I cover my cabin camera, AP yells at me and doesn't work.

AP should work, but FSD will not.

 

[primedive]

AP should work, but FSD will not.

Correct, I only have and use autosteer.

What vehicles do you have and what hardware version? If I cover my cabin camera, AP yells at me and doesn't work.

2022 Model Y, hw3 and the latest holiday software.

 

[David99]

AP should work, but FSD will not.

OK I have not tried that. I'll give that a try. On freeways I much prefer how smoothly FSD drives and does lane changes. AP feels pretty rough in comparison. But it might be a compromise I am willing to make. I can hardly do anything on the touch screen without getting a warning.

 

[DrChaos]

OK I have not tried that. I'll give that a try. On freeways I much prefer how smoothly FSD drives and does lane changes. AP feels pretty rough in comparison. But it might be a compromise I am willing to make. I can hardly do anything on the touch screen without getting a warning.

The alternative that I use is if I need to look at the screen I have one hand (presumably left) on the roller button and pre-emptively twiddle it.

 

[legendsk]

Yeah, if I wasn’t so lazy, I’d file a NHTSA complaint. But I am.

That's just wrong at so many levels, it's funny. Complaining is such a poor response to a problem. Looking for things you like and recognizing and responding positively to them is productive. Ignoring the things you don't like (sometimes called extinction), will generally cause them to die out or at least go away. Negative responses quickly become unproductive and may even begin to promote bad things just to get a response of some kind, even if it's negative. But the key here is punishment is truly a last resort, primarily because it yields unpredictable results.

And of all the options, the least productive punishment I can think of, is trying to get the government involved. Particularly the NHTSA.

 

[David99]

AP should work, but FSD will not.

I tried it today. Indeed, in advanced AP, the cabin camera can be covered. The car won't complain. I can finally look over to the touch screen and entering a destination. The hands on wheel nag frequency increased, though. But that is easy to deal with.

 

[JB47394]

I can finally look over to the touch screen and entering a destination.

You can also press the right steering wheel button and say "Go to address" or "Go to business name". It's helpful to avoid death. Pulling over works too.

 

[CCopperpot]

I tried it today. Indeed, in advanced AP, the cabin camera can be covered. The car won't complain. I can finally look over to the touch screen and entering a destination. The hands on wheel nag frequency increased, though. But that is easy to deal with.

Yeah it does work if you cover the camera, but it will nag you MUCH more frequently than not... but as you said, at least you don't get barked at when you check the speedo or want to change your music.

 

[AZbba]

Has anyone else refused to update? I know a few years ago there was a way to freeze your car and opt out of all future updates. Does Tesla still do that if you ask?

Before the update hit I capped the car at 1kbps via my router, so when parked at home it will not be able to download the update - so far this is working, but I'm concerned they might try to push it over LTE sometime when I'm out.

 

[zoomer0056]

Has anyone else refused to update? I know a few years ago there was a way to freeze your car and opt out of all future updates. Does Tesla still do that if you ask?

Before the update hit I capped the car at 1kbps via my router, so when parked at home it will not be able to download the update - so far this is working, but I'm concerned they might try to push it over LTE sometime when I'm out.

I've not heard of anyone making such a request. Try doing this in the app. But you probably have to word it with a reason they can't argue with.

 

[Dewg]

Be aware of the ramifications of doing so. You will lose access to service, and you may also be legally responsible if you end up in an accident and it's found you failed to handle a recall, especially if it a safety recall.