Apple Car apparently back on

[dipper]

Apple being Apple... I am assuming Apple will require a non-standard charging port? And will only accept Apple pay?

 

[Fred42]

The Apple car is a big nothing.

 

[alexgr]

Apple being Apple... I am assuming Apple will require a non-standard charging port? And will only accept Apple pay?

A firebolt? Makes your car a toast in 5 minutes.

Non-Tesla non-CCS ports would require a non-Anybody-Else charging infrastructure. It is almost stupid now to introduce new standards, and in 4 years it will be Apple-size stupid. I don't think an Apple car will happen ... ever. They are nothing more than a successful software company. The times of Macintosh II are unfortunately all but gone for Apple. It's great to see that innovation momentum going at Tesla and SpaceX. We are watching the real history of transformational innovation there... but not at Apple.

 

[Spacep0d]

I'm just worried I'll buy the Apple iCar 2021 and a month later they'll come out with the Apple iCar 2021 S.

 

[Tam]

...Apple is building a "monocell" design that will bulk up the individual battery cells and free up space inside the battery pack by removing pouches and modules that hold battery materials. This will allow for more active material in a smaller package...

What does that mean?

Does that mean instead of having thousands of cells, now it is only "monocell"? One cell?

Instead of having many cells, many modules, now the whole thing is "monocell", one single module, one single compartment?

 

[drtimhill]

What does that mean?

Does that mean instead of having thousands of cells, now it is only "monocell"? One cell?

Instead of having many cells, many modules, now the whole thing is "monocell", one single module, one single compartment?

I'm no expert here but I think the problem here is heat. Heat generated by a battery increases by the volume of the battery, and so is proportional to the cube of the battery size, while surface area where you can dissipate only goes up with the square of the size. So bigger batteries are much harder to keep cool. A battery twice as big generates 8x as much heat but only has 4x the surface area from which to dissipate it.

 

[Watts_Up]

The Apple car is a big nothing.

If Apple had bought Tesla, what would Elon have been doing then?

Retired or work for Apple... and replace Tim?​

Do you think that Elon Musk is going to work only for SpaceX after the delivery of the new Tesla Roaster?

 

[Matias]

Well it would take 800 of these LiFePO4 batteries to equal what is in an early model S. Retail cost $800,000

Home | Battle Born Batteries | battlebornbatteries.com

Tesla makes Model 3s with LFP batteries.

 

[voyager]

Curious...

 

[1208]

So it wont have windows then.

 

[MXLRplus]

LiFePO4 will work, but it's certainly not 'next generation'. I drove the CODA LiFePO4 car in the summer of 2012. It was a good effort for 2012, but had no real advantages except safety. If you've destroyed some LiFePO4 batteries before, you know they take a lot of abuse before igniting. Polymer cells are fireworks comparatively speaking.

Apple cannot make a car that is under 48 volts (15 cells in series), and at 48 volts it's going to be a dog. To get a reliable 100 hp they need over 1500 amps. I'm betting someone confused monoblock with monocell.

I don't imagine Apple would go under 400 volts due to existing infrastructure. All EV batteries are 2+ parallel cells in 88+ series. What if you just stopped making parallel cells? Put all the cells in series. Think of your car battery. That is actually a monoblock battery with 6 cells, 1p6s.

 

[alexgr]

I'm no expert here but I think the problem here is heat. Heat generated by a battery increases by the volume of the battery, and so is proportional to the cube of the battery size, while surface area where you can dissipate only goes up with the square of the size. So bigger batteries are much harder to keep cool. A battery twice as big generates 8x as much heat but only has 4x the surface area from which to dissipate it.

The problem here is that an electrochemical cell provides the electric potential difference in the range of 1 to 5 volts. One can't, absolutely can't, get 350 V from a single cell. Other problem include a huge capacitance that makes everything extremely slow and zero redundancy that mean any leaky spot will immediately trash the entire battery. All these are before we come to the problem of heat that you describe. Elon was very surprised too: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1341484482302533635

 

[mierwins]

If this happens and Apple follows their iPhone trends then they will have last year's features from Tesla, claim they are NEW features and ask at least a 20% premium. Not only that but they'll slow your car down after two years and force you to buy a new one if you ever want to take it on the highway.

Apple car.....that's funny!

 

[Redbrick]

I am surprise that no one mention Sony which shown a concept car during the 2020 CES?

Sony Reveals Vision-S Concept, Grabs Foothold in EV Future​

I recall that as just being a great thought experiment...nothing to write on about. Imo, I hope if/when they build a car it's doesn't flash red and stop working. George would immediately have something ready for it with comma.ai. lol...

 

[dipper]

If this happens and Apple follows their iPhone trends then they will have last year's features from Tesla, claim they are NEW features and ask at least a 20% premium. Not only that but they'll slow your car down after two years and force you to buy a new one if you ever want to take it on the highway.

Apple car.....that's funny!

Doesn't Tesla do some of those now already?
Slow down battery charging after a few years. Reports of slowing down Ludicrous mode (rather quietly removed it). And not willing to fix older car, but happy to sell a new car instead.

 

[Fred42]

If Apple had bought Tesla, what would Elon have been doing then?

Retired or work for Apple... and replace Tim?​

Do you think that Elon Musk is going to work only for SpaceX after the delivery of the new Tesla Roaster?

It's good that Apple didn't buy Tesla because the pace of iteration and risk-taking would have been missing.

Apple doesn't seem like a good match for Elon's objectives. He might have moved on.

Elon is still needed at Tesla. He has amazing abilities to multitask and delegate while retaining overall control. My guess is he'll remain CEO at Tesla, but I'm worried about the next couple of years-because he is despised by so many people in Washington in both parties. I hope he is taking this seriously and has political advisers and lobbyists on board.

 

[drtimhill]

The problem here is that an electrochemical cell provides the electric potential difference in the range of 1 to 5 volts. One can't, absolutely can't, get 350 V from a single cell. Other problem include a huge capacitance that makes everything extremely slow and zero redundancy that mean any leaky spot will immediately trash the entire battery. All these are before we come to the problem of heat that you describe. Elon was very surprised too: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1341484482302533635

Yeah I was assuming you would need at least enough cells to get the required voltage.

 

[dgatwood]

I'm no expert here but I think the problem here is heat. Heat generated by a battery increases by the volume of the battery, and so is proportional to the cube of the battery size, while surface area where you can dissipate only goes up with the square of the size. So bigger batteries are much harder to keep cool. A battery twice as big generates 8x as much heat but only has 4x the surface area from which to dissipate it.

That's not necessarily a problem. Ostensibly, a pouch-style battery could be shaped to have a much larger surface area relative to its volume than round cells. For example, imagine a thin, almost flat battery that is repeatedly folded back over itself, leaving a small gap in between, with water flowing through the gaps to cool it. I'm not sure how you would actually build such a thing in practice, but I think it is at least theoretically possible.

Apple being Apple... I am assuming Apple will require a non-standard charging port? And will only accept Apple pay?

It will charge with a lightning cable.

 

[drtimhill]

That's not necessarily a problem. Ostensibly, a pouch-style battery could be shaped to have a much larger surface area relative to its volume than round cells. For example, imagine a thin, almost flat battery that is repeatedly folded back over itself, leaving a small gap in between, with water flowing through the gaps to cool it. I'm not sure how you would actually build such a thing in practice, but I think it is at least theoretically possible.

Agreed, though I suspect in practice when you have done all the convolutions to get that, having distinct batteries is probably better. However, it will be interesting to see if/what/when Apple do some up with something (if ever).

 

[dmd2005]

Curious...

I love Lowly’s Apple Car and Busytown.