Are there downsides to performance version (other than cost)

[DaveVa]

With ICE vehicles there is always a tradeoff with the performance versions of vehicles versus the standard (e.g. gas mileage, gearing comfort, ride stiffness). With the Model S having a variable air suspension, single speed transmission, and the same motor - are there any downsides? Does having beefier power components help or hurt efficiency? Is regen any different on the performance versus non-performance model?

Just wondering if the only downside is cost now that they will allow all interior options on the performance models.

 

[AnOutsider]

With ICE vehicles there is always a tradeoff with the performance versions of vehicles versus the standard (e.g. gas mileage, gearing comfort, ride stiffness). With the Model S having a variable air suspension, single speed transmission, and the same motor - are there any downsides? Does having beefier power components help or hurt efficiency? Is regen any different on the performance versus non-performance model?

Just wondering if the only downside is cost now that they will allow all interior options on the performance models.

Tesla says no, as long as they're driven similarly. Now, if you floor it at every light, then yes, you'll see reduced range (same thing in a standard 85kw pack, just likely to a lesser degree).

 

[ElSupreme]

With ICE vehicles there is always a tradeoff with the performance versions of vehicles versus the standard (e.g. gas mileage, gearing comfort, ride stiffness). With the Model S having a variable air suspension, single speed transmission, and the same motor - are there any downsides? Does having beefier power components help or hurt efficiency? Is regen any different on the performance versus non-performance model?

Just wondering if the only downside is cost now that they will allow all interior options on the performance models.

Other than insurance premiums, I think not. You get different seats.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Tesla says no, as long as they're driven similarly. Now, if you floor it at every light, then yes, you'll see reduced range (same thing in a standard 85kw pack, just likely to a lesser degree).

That's the operative phrase - very unlikely that they are driven similarly :smile:

If, after a few months of driving, perf-owners are to compare their logs with non-perf 85 kWh owners, I'm sure we'll see real differences in ranges achieved; it's not the car's "fault" of course!

 

[ckessel]

Most of the aggressive driving would probably be in town with regular nightly plugins that make the range impact unimportant (a slight rise in electricity cost I suppose). On the freeway, you're largely cruising so I wouldn't expect any impact.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Tesla states that Performance cars will have "Sports-tuned Traction Control." Presumably that won't make much difference in daily driving. It wouldn't surprise me to learn, however, that the Active Air Suspension is tuned slightly differently on the Performance edition.

The biggest difference that I expect will be the feel of the 21" vs 19" wheels. Of course, you can get the 21" wheels on the non-Performance version, or 19" on the Performance. That extra 2" of sidewall will make the ride softer, but will reduce performance in turns.

 

[AnOutsider]

Speaking of, RB, has Tesla indicated how many highway miles we may gain by having the air suspension?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Haven't heard anything on that, AO.

 

[dadaleus]

The biggest difference that I expect will be the feel of the 21" vs 19" wheels. Of course, you can get the 21" wheels on the non-Performance version, or 19" on the Performance. That extra 2" of sidewall will make the ride softer, but will reduce performance in turns.

Just so I'm clear, 19" would perform better in turns is what you are saying? I was already leaning toward the aero wheels for the extra mileage. Knowing it improves something else would be another reason to go with them. Do you mean it will have a smaller turning radius or that it will be able to take the corner at a higher speed?

 

[Mycroft]

No, he's saying that the 21" performs better in the turns because the tire sidewall is stiffer and not as flexible, making the tight turns more stable.

 

[dadaleus]

Just so I'm clear, 19" would perform better in turns is what you are saying? I was already leaning toward the aero wheels for the extra mileage. Knowing it improves something else would be another reason to go with them. Do you mean it will have a smaller turning radius or that it will be able to take the corner at a higher speed?

Don't know if this is right, but a search revealed the below article which makes clear that 19" would be better for at least the turning radius. I'm having trouble understanding if they also mean it improves cornering speed but it does say larger tires hurt "steering response."

http://answers.edmunds.com/question-What-is-the-impact-of-larger-versus-smaller-wheels-in-terms-of-turning-radius-What-are-the-advantages-of-larger-121460.aspx

 

[Sig698]

Don't know if this is right, but a search revealed the below article which makes clear that 19" would be better for at least the turning radius. I'm having trouble understanding if they also mean it improves cornering speed but it does say larger tires hurt "steering response."

http://answers.edmunds.com/question-What-is-the-impact-of-larger-versus-smaller-wheels-in-terms-of-turning-radius-What-are-the-advantages-of-larger-121460.aspx

Steering response and cornering speed would be improved with the 21" and the 19" will have a smoother ride due to the larger cushion of the bigger sidewalls. Tire size has absolutely nothing to do with your turning radius and it will be the same with either one. The response to the question on edmunds was pretty uninformed.

Edit: I should have qualified my statement, the turning radius has nothing to do with wheel size as long as you don't run into clearance issues from the bigger wheels. This is almost never a problem when the bigger wheels come from the manufacturer themselves. Bigger wheels can also hurt handling if they are very heavy in comparison to the smaller wheels, but the thinner sidewall will be a much more noticeable difference than wheel weight.

 

[dadaleus]

Good to know. Thanks Sig698

 

[Robert.Boston]

To be clear: the exterior radius of the tire is the same on the 19" and 21" rims. Consequently, there can be no effect on turning radius.

The tires on the 19" rims have 1" additional sidewall. This additional sidewall acts as an extra shock absorber (making the ride softer) but also flexes on cornering, making the turns less responsive.

 

[NigelM]

Are there downsides to performance version (other than cost)?

.
.
.
Whiplash?

 

[onlinespending]

To be clear: the exterior radius of the tire is the same on the 19" and 21" rims. Consequently, there can be no effect on turning radius.

The tires on the 19" rims have 1" additional sidewall. This additional sidewall acts as an extra shock absorber (making the ride softer) but also flexes on cornering, making the turns less responsive.

Given the increased likelihood of damaged rims and alignment issues with the large wheels, any minor performance benefits you get with them is somewhat a moot point. I'd much prefer the 19" wheels. Tesla should not require the 21" wheels with the Performance Package. Reduce the cost of the Performance package and include the 19" wheels with the option to upgrade for those that want the swagged out rims.

 

[Dan5]

Given the increased likelihood of damaged rims and alignment issues with the large wheels

To me, it's very difficult to bend a rim. In my life I've only bent 2 rims (one from an accident) and one from a pothole (incompetent state repair- you don't jack hammer a section out of a highway and not put up signs or close down a section). If you do get a bent rim, keep communications with the state to get reimbursed. If you go with the performance, you should go all out- the 19's take away from the car.

 

[onlinespending]

To me, it's very difficult to bend a rim. In my life I've only bent 2 rims (one from an accident) and one from a pothole (incompetent state repair- you don't jack hammer a section out of a highway and not put up signs or close down a section). If you do get a bent rim, keep communications with the state to get reimbursed. If you go with the performance, you should go all out- the 19's take away from the car.

Given the ultra-low profile tires it's simply that much more likely with the larger wheels. I've had bad luck with low-profile tires, and they were not even on massive rims like these. I think it's personally more cosmetic and for that baller look. I'm also in Jersey, and would also like to have all-season tires for better traction during the winter months (or perhaps even winter tires). 19" rims would allow me to more easily switch tires.

 

[neroden]

To me, it's very difficult to bend a rim. In my life I've only bent 2 rims (one from an accident) and one from a pothole (incompetent state repair- you don't jack hammer a section out of a highway and not put up signs or close down a section).

You should see the state of repair of the roads in upstate NY. Expect rim damage if you take 21"s off the expressways up here. Of course, the Performance will also be useless up here, for exactly the same reason.

Anyway, disadvantages of the Performance which *aren't* dependent on the state of the roads:
- the seats. If you like giant side bolsters, you'll consider them an advantage. If you don't like them (I don't like them), you'll consider them a disadvantage.
- tuning on suspension and traction control. The Performance will have a stiffer, harder ride. *Every* Performance/Sport model from every manufacturer does this. If you like "Performance", you consider it an advantage. If you don't, you consider it a disadvantage.

I think Tesla matched up the "special features" of the Performance quite thoughtfully. The same people (like me) who consider stiff, hard rides and giant side bolsters to be disadvantages.... generally don't give a damn about superfast acceleration. The people who care about superfast acceleration generally want stiff, hard rides and giant side bolsters. It does mean, if you don't like those things, don't get Performance.

 

[ckessel]

I want the 19" tires for all the reasons folks have given. It might affect flat out acceleration somewhat (less contact patch), but that'd be ok with me for the advantages of the 19" rims. I'm personally pretty neutral on the 19" vs. 21" look, so appearance doesn't factor in for me. I sent Tesla a very polite (hopefully, that was the intent) suggesting they reconsider pricing on the rims for the Perf version and give a credit to folks that downgrade to 19". That'd encourage folks like me to upgrade to Performance which is a gain for Tesla and Tesla isn't losing anything for all the folks that want to stay with 21" rims. Tesla already supports 19" on the Perf since it's an allowed option so it's not a new technical issue or new configuration option, so this is purely a pricing consideration.

I know I'm in a minority with this desired combination, but it seems like a win/win change.