Article from my extreme right wing climate denying Dad

[Carl]

I think at least the 226,000 number is very misleading, in any event, as it only concerns the current production line if I read correctly.

Board of Directors of Volkswagen, 1955:

- President: we have one million orders per year for the Beetle and can only produce 226,000 on our production line in Wolfsburg. What the heck should we do?
- Junior board member: huh, add another line in Wolfsburg?
- Even more junior board member: huh, build a plant in Pueblo and another one somewhere in Brazil?
- Board: Hooray, who ever would have thought of such a miraculous, original idea

There's probably a reason the author will never be invited to become board member of any company wishing to survive

EDIT: and yes Tesla will sell MS's and MX's to people who can't wait for their M3 while M3 production ramps up. Nothing wrong with that strategy either, as long as it works (and Tesla will figure out how long that will work much better than the author of the article).

 

[LargeHamCollider]

So, my Dad just posted this on his Facebook. I assure you I am the only person he knows that not only has interest in a Tesla, but stood in line to reserve a Model 3 in March 31, 2016. He's extreme right wing, a climate change denyer, and I think believes it Tesla is some liberal evil organization. I admit I haven't read the whole thing yet, but will be later today. So I thought I'd post this here cause I'd like to read everybody's comments after I do.

Truth in Numbers: Tesla Motors Kind of Lied to Us

This is an obvious attempt to shame your dad, and as such is pretty ugly behavior. Behavior I would expect from a high school student not an adult.

That said your dad's article is clearly biased, and also pretty weak tea so far as arguments go. I don't see anything that is knowably, outright false but claiming that Tesla knowingly lied is nasty speculation.

 

[Snerruc]

This is an obvious attempt to shame your dad, and as such is pretty ugly behavior. Behavior I would expect from a high school student not an adult.

That said your dad's article is clearly biased, and also pretty weak tea so far as arguments go. I don't see anything that is knowably, outright false but claiming that Tesla knowingly lied is nasty speculation.

+1

 

[GoTslaGo]

From reading these reports, these are tax exemptions Tesla requests for capital costs of tooling etc... for developing the manufacturing lines for the cars. These are granted depending upon whether these follow emissions/pollution impact for California with bonus "points" for job creation, etc...

The current numbers appear conservative. There are 5 of these filings (googled "CAEAFTA awards Tesla", then followed by their respective years):

2009 Tesla projected a long term run rate of 20k model S/year. Starting with 0 in 2010, 1000 in 2011, 10k in 2012, 20k in 2013, etc... (see pic below)

2011/12 was request for approx 10-15k Model X, and extension and delay due to the focus on the Model S.

2013 was additional request due to increased tooling to get run rate of 35k model S per year.

2015 was additional request due to increased tooling to get projected run rate of 77k model S & X per year. This exemption has not been fully used at this point--and now Tesla is projected to be making 100k S & X per year.

So based on their previous filings Tesla seems to be pretty conservative with their estimates and requests. At this point they have hit their targeted run rate with the last filing (77k) and will be easily 25-30% greater in their production numbers for the year (and future run rate).

Original projected numbers (2009):

Model S sales numbers since 2012 (note model X not included):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

So at this point the original projected run rate for Model S of 20k/year is way conservative--and Tesla exceeded the projected 20k for 2013. The original 2011-2012 numbers however were not hit (starting S-curve), but significantly exceeded later.

I believe that the current filing is conservative based on their experiences with developing the S&X. Furthermore IIRC from their Earnings report, they are "phasing" in the capital expenditures to develop the production line for the 3 so as to limit the financial hit per quarter. Since this report is from 2016, I suspect that as they ramp up the 3, there will be additional exemption requests next year (as they have done in the past).

For me, thanks to your dad for bringing this to your (and my) attention. It really bespeaks of how amazing Tesla's growth has been--and ability to meet, and exceed expectations.

 

[Electroman]

I am not interested in any article that references Kanban

 

[bonnie]

This is an obvious attempt to shame your dad, and as such is pretty ugly behavior. Behavior I would expect from a high school student not an adult.

I'd have to agree IF the OP used her real name or if she published her dad's name. She clearly loves him.

I had similar issues with my dad, but regarding race and sexual preferences. I won't go into what I heard him telling my son one day (because it's incredibly insulting to those he was talking about), but before I blew, my son whispered to me, "I know we don't think like that, Mom." That has nothing to do with disrespect for my father. I loved him.

I personally think it's a huge sign of respect to know someone's weaknesses and love them anyway.

 

[bonnie]

So I'm not sure on the sales tax credit numbers, but would this be the credit people get when they buy the car? If this is correct, then would we be safe to assume that not all cars are destined for California? Also, will Tesla not assemble model 3's elsewhere after a while?

No. That credit is handled through CARB (California Air Resources Board) and has nothing to do with California sales tax.

 

[LargeHamCollider]

I'd have to agree IF the OP used her real name or if she published her dad's name. She clearly loves him.

Her dad's name is right at the top of the article.

 

[Electroman]

Her dad's name is right at the top of the article.

That makes it her dad's problem. Not hers.

 

[bonnie]

Her dad's name is right at the top of the article.

Didn't notice - and I'll assume she didn't either. Going right to 'trying to shame her father' is a bit of a stretch, imo.

 

[Eclectic]

So, my Dad just posted this on his Facebook. I assure you I am the only person he knows that not only has interest in a Tesla, but stood in line to reserve a Model 3 in March 31, 2016. He's extreme right wing, a climate change denyer, and I think believes it Tesla is some liberal evil organization. I admit I haven't read the whole thing yet, but will be later today. So I thought I'd post this here cause I'd like to read everybody's comments after I do.

Truth in Numbers: Tesla Motors Kind of Lied to Us

Your dad's opinions and politics have nothing to do with what others think of the article. I would hope he doesn't ask questions regarding the things you say by prefacing it with "my extreme left wing climate alarmist daughter..." The only thing you've done by labeling your dad is to give some people an immediate bias against the article. Presumably, if you had wanted honest opinions about the article you would have not injected the question with this type of bias...

 

[LargeHamCollider]

Didn't notice - and I'll assume she didn't either. Going right to 'trying to shame her father' is a bit of a stretch, imo.

I don't think I'm the one stretching here, though I admire your refusal to impugn the motivations of a stranger.

 

[cpa]

No. That credit is handled through CARB (California Air Resources Board) and has nothing to do with California sales tax.

I did not read the story, so I may be wrong about the sales tax issue.

A number of years ago the legislature passed some exemptions for agricultural and manufacturing businesses regarding the sales tax rate on tangible personal property purchased for those industries. California's base sales tax rate is 6 1/4%, I believe. Then we have the county-wide rate of 1 1/4% plus any number of local add-on rates that were approved by the voters to fund roads and other projects.

Here is an explanation of the current exemption:

Sales Use Tax Exemption | Manufacturing Exemption | CA Manufacturing Companies

So, in essence businesses in qualified industries purchasing qualified tangible personal property save a little over 4% on their sales tax purchases.

Yes, this equipment can run into the tens of millions of dollars. But it keeps businesses here. It likely increases employment, which increases personal income taxes and personal spending.

And California ain't the only state that dangles carrots in front of businesses.

 

[bonnie]

I did not read the story, so I may be wrong about the sales tax issue.

A number of years ago the legislature passed some exemptions for agricultural and manufacturing businesses regarding the sales tax rate on tangible personal property purchased for those industries. California's base sales tax rate is 6 1/4%, I believe. Then we have the county-wide rate of 1 1/4% plus any number of local add-on rates that were approved by the voters to fund roads and other projects.

Here is an explanation of the current exemption:

Sales Use Tax Exemption | Manufacturing Exemption | CA Manufacturing Companies

So, in essence businesses in qualified industries purchasing qualified tangible personal property save a little over 4% on their sales tax purchases.

Yes, this equipment can run into the tens of millions of dollars. But it keeps businesses here. It likely increases employment, which increases personal income taxes and personal spending.

And California ain't the only state that dangles carrots in front of businesses.

Right. But that's not a sales tax exemption targeting EVs.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Who said I was dismissing his opinions? I love him very much, including when I don't agree with him. I also stated I have not had time to truly read the article yet. It's long, and I am getting ready for work. I am going to spend time on the article after. Thought some folks here could save me some time.

The article talks about sales tax exemptions in California. I do not live in California. There are many educated people on this forum that I am asking for there thoughts on this.

I AM interested in the parts that are not inaccurate. If you want to discuss that, feel free. If you just want to insult me because you don't agree with me, then get off my post.

Relax it was a "tongue in cheek" comment. I should have added a smilie.

 

[Weezer Fan]

Relax it was a "tongue in cheek" comment. I should have added a smilie.

Ok. We're good.

 

[jeffro01]

If that was my father I'd sever all ties with him... I couldn't be associated with someone that misinformed and ignorant... Please do not take that as a personal attack, that's not what I'm intending.

Jeff

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I do think @bonnie is right on this one. The Dad's name is not posted in the article, just the article writer's, who obviously does not fit the description.

I found the sceptical context OP provided warranted in this case, too. And you know me, I don't say such things lightly...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If that was my father I'd sever all ties with him... I couldn't be associated with someone that misinformed and ignorant... Please do not take that as a personal attack, that's not what I'm intending.

I don't know if this is a compliment or what, but I believe you @jeffro01

 

[Weezer Fan]

Your dad's opinions and politics have nothing to do with what others think of the article. I would hope he doesn't ask questions regarding the things you say by prefacing it with "my extreme left wing climate alarmist daughter..." The only thing you've done by labeling your dad is to give some people an immediate bias against the article. Presumably, if you had wanted honest opinions about the article you would have not injected the question with this type of bias...

Ok. I'll give. My original reason for posting that was because since I know his already formed opinions, I figured the article would not have merit. However, it seems it does. I don't mind finding that out. ( Which is why I was asking).

No names are mentioned on my post. My father is not in this group, and I would never do that to him. While I do not respect his opinion on many topics, I do respect and love him very much.

Thank you for giving me some food for thought.