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Attempting to price out options for Model 3

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This is my version of affordable as a monthly payment (not from savings): discretionary money left over after saving 20% of paycheck.

So where does that place the still very large and predominant household of 2 parents and 1.5 kids starting from a gross salary of $4,400 a month ?
  • $1000 to mortgage
  • $250 to utilities
  • $400 to Health Insurance
  • $660 to taxes
  • $700 to food
  • $750 to Savings
  • $80 to Car Insurance
That is already $3850 and does not include rather common items like clothing, car fuel, co-insurances, cleaning, school, hobbies, entertainment, presents or socializing.

$700 a month is a lot to spend on food with such a small family. Many families get by with half that or less.

If one were to follow that website then the car insurance would be part of the 10% as would the fuel. 3850 - 80 = $3770
$4400 - $3770 = $630 - $440 = $190 left for luxury items. If you want more then put less towards savings.
 
$700 a month is a lot to spend on food with such a small family. Many families get by with half that or less.
Rice and beans is pretty cheap, but consider a 4 person family where each person eats 3 meals a day. Then $700 is under $2 a meal, and your statement of "half that or less" implies less than $1 a meal.

Not so much, unless most of the bill is paid with food stamps.
 
Only thing for sure is that calling the M3 a "a mass market model" cannot mean affordable to households with median income. Maybe double median income if a one car family.

Yes, we've already confirmed mass market never means anything to do with price.


Then $700 is under $2 a meal, and your statement of "half that or less" implies less than $1 a meal.
How many meals does a box of cereal and milk produce?
 
Nearly $700 a month for "other necessities"? Every month?
Easy, for a family of four.

You don't have a budget, do you ? I'm not trying to imply that you are not aware of your money, but that you do not really have much of a clue regarding the particulars of cost of living, and certainly not for a median household.

Check out yNab.com
Realistic budgeting, fun for data nerds.
 
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Even further it assumes the median family is buying the average new car. Median families buy median used cars.

The fact remains if you are buying a M3 you are in the top 15% of american households in terms of income.
Since I have long made my living with statistics:

Of course any measure of central tendency produces a biased view. It is for that reason that when any detailed analysis of market potential is made one immediately begins to search for modes and also make adjustments for many other factors. For years roughly a third of US vehicle sales have been for cash, generally to wealthier and older people. These same people skew towards two modes of price, one below the mean and one a multiple of the mean. (which one depends mostly on the class of vehicle involved and net worth, not income.

By the time one excludes those cash buyers, all the other measures skew quite substantially too.

I do not argue too much with the rules of thumb, although I'd include factors such as own vs rent, stability of income and living situation, etc. Adding up those many factors one might as well adopt a generic FICO score as a surrogate for all of them. Not by coincidence, generic used car buyers tend to have credit scores about 70 points lower than generic new car buyers. All taht is relevant, but makes our discussion much too complex.

From what I read in this thread, most of us posting here are exercising sound financial judgement for our own situations. This is no surprise to me since Tesla buyers are much better educated than most new car buyers, and also plan more. Frankly, Tesla sales process makes that a self-fulfilling prophecy because there is no conventional advertising, most of us must order our cars and wait for them.Those factors are strong positive selectors for good financial judgement.

To my last point, some years ago I led a project for a very large US auto manufacturer (still under non-disclosure). We evaluated hundreds of variables to gain insight to: 1. brand loyalty, 2. buyer demographics, 3. purchasing behavior and a few other things. It turned out taht people who ordered their cars were far more desirable in loyalty and demographics were superior in every aspect except age, because they were older than other buyers. The report was almost 200 pages.

Now in this thread the superior thought and planning is reflected in that all of us are planning for a car that will only arrive in two years or so. BY that time we'll all have figured out every financial and non-financial nuance. Frankly, I am impressed, even with most of the people I am most prone to argue.
 
I disagree with Tesla that this is a mass market car even without any options. 35K while only 2k higher than the avg selling price of new cars is probably quite a lot higher than the average (or even better median) price of all cars bought (this would include used car sales).

With all this talk about whether or not it is a "mass market" car, I don't recall Tesla ever actually saying that that is their goal. I know they said in the original master plan that this would be the more affordable vehicle.

If they did say "mass market" they are probably defining the "market" as all introductory luxury vehicles, in which case they nailed it!

If they're going by average of all new cars then, going strictly by the definition, the base model with no options could just barely be considered that. As soon as you add options, delivery, and taxes, you are well to the right in the bell cure and no longer mass market.
 
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If they're going by average of all new cars then, going strictly by the definition, the base model with no options could just barely be considered that. As soon as you add options, delivery, and taxes, you are well to the right in the bell cure and no longer mass market.
Yes, but that is a fair useless definition because it ignores market segments. An average sedan is $20-25k, an entry sports car is $35k and an entry luxury car, $40k. It seems fairly obvious that Tesla is targeting somewhere in the last two market segments with prices in the range of other cars in those segments.

"mass market" is done and dead.

used-car-report-q2.jpg
 
With all this talk about whether or not it is a "mass market" car, I don't recall Tesla ever actually saying that that is their goal. I know they said in the original master plan that this would be the more affordable vehicle.

If they did say "mass market" they are probably defining the "market" as all introductory luxury vehicles, in which case they nailed it!

If they're going by average of all new cars then, going strictly by the definition, the base model with no options could just barely be considered that. As soon as you add options, delivery, and taxes, you are well to the right in the bell cure and no longer mass market.
It is their goal for the Model 3 to be mass market .... remember mass market has nothing to do with price, just volume
 
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Mass of the $35-$45 segment, yes.

The mass of the new car market is in the $20 - $25k segment and Tesla does not play there. Yet

There's only one definition of mass market... but sure there are many demographics where the Model 3 wouldn't make sense such as the poverty stricken areas of Africa.

Also since the average new car is over $30k I'm going to suggest you are incorrect because the average transaction price is also over $30k. You might be referring to the average transaction price for compact and subcompact econoboxes...

here's a page that's a year old now.
New-Car Transaction Prices Jump More Than 3 Percent In August 2015, According To Kelley Blue Book
 
There's only one definition of mass market
I get the impression that no two people can agree on a definition for mass market, but go ahead say yours. And while we can probably agree that large SUVs and trucks combine for over 50% of all passenger vehicles sold in the US, we will have to disagree if you think that Tesla is competing for those sales.

What is left ?
Small and medium sized cars
Luxury cars
Sports cars

As I posted above, Tesla is well outside the price range of small and medium-sized cars, so whatever definition of 'mass market' you come up with better be limited in scope to luxury and sports cars.
 
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I'd like to see where Tesla said "mass market", I know from the original master plan that the M3 is the "even more affordable car", but I don't recall them saying mass market.

I'm not trying to be pedantic or anything (ok maybe a little). I'm jsut trying to point out to all the people tossing around average car prices and income levels and the "mass market" phrase that the M3 is not going to be a mass market car, I don't think it was ever supposed to be. It is merely supposed to be an even more affordable car than the previous models - which it clearly is.

Now, maybe someone there actually said it and is considering smaller marekt segments in their definition. If you subdivide into segments it will surely be the best in it's segment, but over the enitre new car market - no.