I totally agree. I believe that another maker participating in the Supercharger network would definitely benefit Tesla, and would almost certainly benefit both parties.
However I do not expect any of them to do it. I would be shocked if they did.
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Audi R8 e-tron
- Thread starter SwedishAdvocate
- Start date
I totally agree. I believe that another maker participating in the Supercharger network would definitely benefit Tesla, and would almost certainly benefit both parties.
However I do not expect any of them to do it. I would be shocked if they did.
But where did they get that price from?
The AUTOCAR article that is hyperlinked doesn't have a date and is about a previous R8 e-tron prototype...
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Agree, no one is irreplaceable. Elon has charged down this path for almost 8 years now and no one has fired him. Maybe they are satisfied with Elon's vision and execution?
Apple's iCar that Tim Cook seems to be embarking on will likely drop Apple's ROI rather dramatically.
Not a drop in the buck. If not to make the world a better place I don't see a good reason to enter the auto market.
Unlike Cook, Elon owns ~27% of Tesla.
I am Tesla investor. I don't own Ron Baron numbers but not a few dozen shares either.
I cheer him on. Not telling me to pound sand.
It is highly likely there is a similar sentiment among Tesla investors whether they do so directly or indirectly through an investment institution.
Same thing with Apple... the competition didn't hurt Apple, it just made them more popular and also forced them to compete. There would be no iPhone 6 today if Samsung hadn't hit a home run with that larger screen. But overall iPhone is still the profit leader. The competition didn't spell doom for Apple. In fact, the competition elevated Apple. I would see the same happening to Tesla. But I am not in favor of competition to the detriment of Tesla. Not at all. I'm a stakeholder here, the last thing I want to see is Tesla hurt in any way by competition.
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Wasn't saying otherwise.
OH trust me, I'm a cheerleader as well.
Elon has released Tesla’s patents. He’s on the record saying that the reason he did this is to try and save Earth from catastrophic climate change where a rising sea level – which is already up some 23 cm since 1880 – would be one of the consequences.
How would perhaps some 2K R8 e-trons be able to hurt Tesla if those e-trons were also able to use the Superchargers?
As I wrote above, Audi would be funding the Superchargers by sinking as many $$$ as Tesla into every single second spent, and every single kWh drawn from a Tesla Supercharger, as Tesla themselves do (or whatever the actual metric is…) That means more money to build more Superchargers.
There has been a lot of lazy reporting on the R8, but that is to be expected with the current state of journalism.
The 280 mile range being quoted is the NEDC estimate by Audi. On an NEDC basis the S85 range is 311 miles not 265 miles. Presumably the S85D range will be higher once it's certified.
So so think about it, with a 92kwh battery pack for a two door sports sedan car that weighs significantly less than a Model S, Audi is still getting less range the four door 5 + 2 seater Model S.
Assuming a similar conversion rate from NEDC to EPA for the Model S (265 vs 311) the EPA range of the R8 would be 239 miles.
A better comp for the R8 is the upgraded 70kwh battery pack for the Roadster which apparently gets a maximum 360 miles of range on a full charge. Assuming the typical EPA range cut relative to initial OEM estimates, the upgraded Roadster will likely get about 320 miles and the R8 will likely get 210 miles (12% EPA cut).
So with a 70kwh battery pack Tesla is getting almost a 100 miles more range than a 92kwh R8. Audi has essentially replicated what Teala did with the original Roadster 7 years ago in terms of range but in a less efficient manner with a larger and likely more expensive battery pack.
The 280 mile range being quoted is the NEDC estimate by Audi. On an NEDC basis the S85 range is 311 miles not 265 miles. Presumably the S85D range will be higher once it's certified.
So so think about it, with a 92kwh battery pack for a two door sports sedan car that weighs significantly less than a Model S, Audi is still getting less range the four door 5 + 2 seater Model S.
Assuming a similar conversion rate from NEDC to EPA for the Model S (265 vs 311) the EPA range of the R8 would be 239 miles.
A better comp for the R8 is the upgraded 70kwh battery pack for the Roadster which apparently gets a maximum 360 miles of range on a full charge. Assuming the typical EPA range cut relative to initial OEM estimates, the upgraded Roadster will likely get about 320 miles and the R8 will likely get 210 miles (12% EPA cut).
So with a 70kwh battery pack Tesla is getting almost a 100 miles more range than a 92kwh R8. Audi has essentially replicated what Teala did with the original Roadster 7 years ago in terms of range but in a less efficient manner with a larger and likely more expensive battery pack.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
bluenation
Member
the etron as it stands is DOA
maybe it will do a BMW and use it as experiment to create a more mass market EV a la i3
in any case, audi is the lamest of the big 3. my money, at least in european makers, is on MB and BMW.
maybe it will do a BMW and use it as experiment to create a more mass market EV a la i3
in any case, audi is the lamest of the big 3. my money, at least in european makers, is on MB and BMW.
That is one of the lamest car "reviews" I have ever read. It simply repeats Audi's claims without analyzing them. The company claims the car will go 280 miles, which is certainly an estimate based on the European test cycle. No way will it get that from the U.S. EPA.
AUDI says the R8 E-Tron CD is 0.28 and the battery is 49kWh, while the Model S CD is 0.24 and the battery is 85kWh.
And the AUDI costs well over twice as much as the P85D which seats 5 (or 7), has tons of luggage space, and a faster 0-60 time.
Really, the cars aren't even comparable. The AUDI is in a different class, it's called "pay over twice as much but get a lot less".
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MartinAustin
Active Member
It's especially telling, and lame, that Audi, one of the pioneers of the all-wheel-drive systems and synonymous with the "Quattro" branding, is releasing its electric version of the R8 as a RWD only, when their combustion version of it is an AWD car and must certainly grip the road better in a wide range of conditions.
Here is what Audi says about their convertible R8 which has AWD: "With Audi quattro® all-wheel drive, the Audi R8 Spyder can handle almost any challenge thrown at it. Be it performance-driving or inclement weather situations, quattro® helps the R8 Spyder adapt by quickly distributing power to the wheels that need it most. After all, what is performance without control?"
It'll be a bit hard for them to wriggle out of that and still say the RWD electric version is adequate, never mind cutting edge.
Here is what Audi says about their convertible R8 which has AWD: "With Audi quattro® all-wheel drive, the Audi R8 Spyder can handle almost any challenge thrown at it. Be it performance-driving or inclement weather situations, quattro® helps the R8 Spyder adapt by quickly distributing power to the wheels that need it most. After all, what is performance without control?"
It'll be a bit hard for them to wriggle out of that and still say the RWD electric version is adequate, never mind cutting edge.
If they made this car for ~ $135,000 it would be a very compelling upgrade from the Roadster. I am worried that Tesla won't ( not in the next 5 years ) make another Roadster.
I'm not sure where that $1.3M figure came from. I expect that the e-tron will be more than a gas-powered R8 but I would have guess more like $300-400k than over a million. I, too, am looking forward to a successor for the roadster from Tesla.
Am I the only one who doesn't understand why that clearly erroneous "$1.3 million" figure keeps getting reposted in this thread?
The fact seems to be that there isn't an official price as of yet.
I don't understand it either.
That article says, quote: "The regular R8 will cost you $115,900, and we’d expect the e-tron model to bump that up another $140k or so..."
I don't think AUDI has released the price yet, but it certainly won't be $1.3 million. Far less than that, but likely far more than a P85D.
If they make that car, at those specs, and in the $135K ballpark... and... it can hustle around a racetrack for 15 minutes without limping, that will be tempting.
I love my Roadster, but because of the power limit that comes on when the motor gets hot, it isn't much of a sportscar.
If Audi making that car lights a fire under Tesla to make a proper new Roadster, that would be even better.
I love my Roadster, but because of the power limit that comes on when the motor gets hot, it isn't much of a sportscar.
If Audi making that car lights a fire under Tesla to make a proper new Roadster, that would be even better.
mnx
2018 M3P
My sentiments exactly!
I look forward to the day the the EV market is big enough that we don't compare every EV out there to the Model S... No one cross shops a sedan with a 2 seater supercar.... Just because the P85D can accelerate to 60mph like a supercar does not make it one.
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
Some new information has come out about the Audi R8 e-tron:
Audi R8 e-tron Test Drive Review
2015 Audi R8 e-tron prototype review | Autocar (original source for the inside EVs article)
I found these bits especially interesting: "Interesting is that Audi choose to go Tesla’s way with 18650 lithium-ion battery cells using 7,488 of them in 52 modules." and "Whereas the earlier R8 e-tron drew its electric energy from a 48.6kWh lithium ion battery, the new one gets a much larger 91.0kWh unit."
Audi R8 e-tron Test Drive Review
2015 Audi R8 e-tron prototype review | Autocar (original source for the inside EVs article)
I found these bits especially interesting: "Interesting is that Audi choose to go Tesla’s way with 18650 lithium-ion battery cells using 7,488 of them in 52 modules." and "Whereas the earlier R8 e-tron drew its electric energy from a 48.6kWh lithium ion battery, the new one gets a much larger 91.0kWh unit."
I found this amusing, quote:
"There is a big red button within the centre console to activate a sound generator used to mimic the hum of the naturally aspirated 5.2-litre V10 direct-injection petrol engine used by the standard R8."
Also, the battery pack is so tall that there is no rear window so a rear facing camera and interior display is used instead of a rear view mirror. That is not allowed in the US and is a bad idea anyway unless there is some provision for continuous automatic cleaning of the rear camera lens. The Model S rear view camera is usually useless in the rain, the image becomes to blurred to be usable.
Quote: "Owing to the tall battery pack behind the seats and the fact that, subsequently, the rear window is blanked off, the e-tron has a 6.8-inch AMOLED monitor in place of a rear-view mirror. Inspired by the unit used on the R18 e-tron quattro Le Mans race car, it carries real-time video captured by a rear view camera.
It's a little odd at first but you soon become accustomed to its shallow depth of field. Whether or not it appears on the production car is up in the air right now, says Hackenberg. "
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The Roadster has a tall pack but at least it doesn't completely block the view to the rear! I wonder how high the R8 e-tron COG is compared to the ICE version.
"There is a big red button within the centre console to activate a sound generator used to mimic the hum of the naturally aspirated 5.2-litre V10 direct-injection petrol engine used by the standard R8."
Also, the battery pack is so tall that there is no rear window so a rear facing camera and interior display is used instead of a rear view mirror. That is not allowed in the US and is a bad idea anyway unless there is some provision for continuous automatic cleaning of the rear camera lens. The Model S rear view camera is usually useless in the rain, the image becomes to blurred to be usable.
Quote: "Owing to the tall battery pack behind the seats and the fact that, subsequently, the rear window is blanked off, the e-tron has a 6.8-inch AMOLED monitor in place of a rear-view mirror. Inspired by the unit used on the R18 e-tron quattro Le Mans race car, it carries real-time video captured by a rear view camera.
It's a little odd at first but you soon become accustomed to its shallow depth of field. Whether or not it appears on the production car is up in the air right now, says Hackenberg. "
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The Roadster has a tall pack but at least it doesn't completely block the view to the rear! I wonder how high the R8 e-tron COG is compared to the ICE version.
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AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
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