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Audio: Any thoughts on the standard sound system?
- Thread starter ddruz
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sjledet
Your Model S should absolutely support (unprotected) .M4A files -- you just need to make sure that your thumb drive is formatted in FAT or FAT32 (preferred) format... NTFS (default for many drives) will *not* work!
I just bought a 32gb Slim Flash Drive for the impending Model S arrival. Formatted it FAT32 using Disk Utility on my Mac and have copied my iTunes music folder directly over to it. I'm sure it will play just fine... Also check out the Audio Formats thread....
Aaron
Your Model S should absolutely support (unprotected) .M4A files -- you just need to make sure that your thumb drive is formatted in FAT or FAT32 (preferred) format... NTFS (default for many drives) will *not* work!
I just bought a 32gb Slim Flash Drive for the impending Model S arrival. Formatted it FAT32 using Disk Utility on my Mac and have copied my iTunes music folder directly over to it. I'm sure it will play just fine... Also check out the Audio Formats thread....
Aaron
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I have standard sound system, and I noticed that there is no sound from the rear speaker bar (on the hatch) at all. So, the kids in the rear-facing seats will probably not hear very much from the sound system.
Got my car couple days ago. I ordered Sound Studio and I am pretty picky about the sound. All my music is lossless and I own 3+ high end systems of various caliber. Anyway - Studio sounds pretty good for the factory system. Quite a bit better than BMW Logic 7 for example. I'd call sound as "balanced" and "low distortion". There obvious deficiencies but in overall sound is not muddied like it often happens in OEM systems that want to impress unwashed masses with power of their subwoofers. Primary deficiency IMO is poor quality bass. Not quantity - quality. I think main problem is that entire door panel vibrates with woofer in the door - I can feel it with my elbow even when volume is a at 3-4. Door certainly could benefit from sound damping and deadening. Since even with stock speakers system sound decent, I'd probably upgrade speakers and invest in door panel deadening with dynamist and only then mess with amplifiers.
I think the standard sound system sounds excellent. But I'm not a hardcore audiophile, and I keep my bass down. It's very clean; I've heard more distortion in home stereo systems intended for audiophiles. Also, my door doesn't appear to vibrate noticeably with the woofer... perhaps something in your door panel is actually loose? Or maybe it is vibrating and I'm just not sensitive to the vibration.
Yup, I'm standard as well and fairly happy. The bass is there, just more subtle than usual in a car. Good presence overall. Need to really test with high quality source material but this was a good choice for me. If I decide I want a high-end system I can just go custom now.
Sorry in advance for the length of this post but many people have asked for details.
First, I agree that the MS sound system is OK. I ordered the standard sound system after our MS test drive – got to stop adding extras somewhere. Delivery day came and the car is superb, however every time I drove the car I wished that I had spent the extra thousand for the upgraded MS Studio Sound Package. But once delivered there is no factory upgrading.
I am not an audiophile, however I could discern a lack of low-end response, the sound stage seemed indistinct, and for me the Model S deserves so much more.
So after forum lurking I made several improvements:
Step 1 – give the speakers time to break in – small improvement noticed.
Step 2 – ditch my MP3 files and re-rip all my CDs to lossless format (tried both FLAC and WAV) and listen to music via MS USB memory stick interface – more improvement.
Still not great so - Step 3, I visited both Al and Eds in Hollywood; and Reus Audio Systems in Orange County.
Long story short, after hearing the Reus system in a MS they were working on I was hooked. But the MS I heard had the Studio Sound Package and mine was the basic so what would the outcome be? I was thinking all new speakers, but Reuss insisted that factory speakers are developed and balanced for the car, that they would add a subwoofer, and only replace the other speakers if necessary. So I trusted their expertise and told them if my car could sound close to the MS I was sitting in I would be happy.
I have had the Reus system for 3 weeks now and in a word it is spectacular. Phenomenal bass response, crystal clear distinct sound stage, every note balanced.
Rock - Crosby, Stills, and Nash: Helplessly Hoping – I can easily place the distinct position of each singer on the sound stage.
Jazz – Fourplay: Bali Run - every note distinct yet integrated and balanced.
Pop – Norah Jones: Don’t Know Why – I feel as if I she is sitting 10 feet in front of me and singing live.
I listen to the music in the MS now and often get chills down my spine it is so good. Driving the car now is truly a magic carpet experience.
Short story of validation – my wife visited her mother for a few weeks during which time I had the Reus system installed – unbeknownst to her. On her return I picked her up from the airport in the MS, and she was happy to see I drove the MS. As we were pulling out of the parking lot she commented: “Wow the music sounds really good, its great to be back.” – drove for a few more miles and she says “I can understand what they are saying in the songs, that's really nice.” Yeah I said, how’s your mother doing? A few more miles and she says: “I forgot how good the music sounds in this car, I am sure glad we got the Model S, Tesla built such a great car”, to which I say “Wellllll - this is not exactly the same sound system – I did spend some extra money while you were gone....”
Disclosure: I did not know of Reus Audio Systems before I heard of them 2 months ago on the MS forums. I do not own any of their stock (or even know if they have stock). I was just trying to find a way to improve my MS sound system that was worthy of the MS – and there is such a lack of information available from anyone. So I wrote this in the hopes that it may help provide some information.
First, I agree that the MS sound system is OK. I ordered the standard sound system after our MS test drive – got to stop adding extras somewhere. Delivery day came and the car is superb, however every time I drove the car I wished that I had spent the extra thousand for the upgraded MS Studio Sound Package. But once delivered there is no factory upgrading.
I am not an audiophile, however I could discern a lack of low-end response, the sound stage seemed indistinct, and for me the Model S deserves so much more.
So after forum lurking I made several improvements:
Step 1 – give the speakers time to break in – small improvement noticed.
Step 2 – ditch my MP3 files and re-rip all my CDs to lossless format (tried both FLAC and WAV) and listen to music via MS USB memory stick interface – more improvement.
Still not great so - Step 3, I visited both Al and Eds in Hollywood; and Reus Audio Systems in Orange County.
Long story short, after hearing the Reus system in a MS they were working on I was hooked. But the MS I heard had the Studio Sound Package and mine was the basic so what would the outcome be? I was thinking all new speakers, but Reuss insisted that factory speakers are developed and balanced for the car, that they would add a subwoofer, and only replace the other speakers if necessary. So I trusted their expertise and told them if my car could sound close to the MS I was sitting in I would be happy.
I have had the Reus system for 3 weeks now and in a word it is spectacular. Phenomenal bass response, crystal clear distinct sound stage, every note balanced.
Rock - Crosby, Stills, and Nash: Helplessly Hoping – I can easily place the distinct position of each singer on the sound stage.
Jazz – Fourplay: Bali Run - every note distinct yet integrated and balanced.
Pop – Norah Jones: Don’t Know Why – I feel as if I she is sitting 10 feet in front of me and singing live.
I listen to the music in the MS now and often get chills down my spine it is so good. Driving the car now is truly a magic carpet experience.
Short story of validation – my wife visited her mother for a few weeks during which time I had the Reus system installed – unbeknownst to her. On her return I picked her up from the airport in the MS, and she was happy to see I drove the MS. As we were pulling out of the parking lot she commented: “Wow the music sounds really good, its great to be back.” – drove for a few more miles and she says “I can understand what they are saying in the songs, that's really nice.” Yeah I said, how’s your mother doing? A few more miles and she says: “I forgot how good the music sounds in this car, I am sure glad we got the Model S, Tesla built such a great car”, to which I say “Wellllll - this is not exactly the same sound system – I did spend some extra money while you were gone....”
Disclosure: I did not know of Reus Audio Systems before I heard of them 2 months ago on the MS forums. I do not own any of their stock (or even know if they have stock). I was just trying to find a way to improve my MS sound system that was worthy of the MS – and there is such a lack of information available from anyone. So I wrote this in the hopes that it may help provide some information.
I thought I would post my thoughts on the Standard audio vs. the Studio Sound package. I have driven our Model S for about 8 months and it's equipped with the Studio Sound package, so I have a good frame of reference of what it sounds like. I took the car in for it's 12k service this week and Tesla was kind enough to give me a P85+ loaner. I was a bit surprised though because it only had the standard sound package.
I will say upfront that my review is not going to try to answer the question 'is it worth the money to upgrade' because I believe that is a very subjective issue. Some people love to be involved in the music they listen to, so they are willing to pay huge sums of money to try to achieve that effect. Others are not as involved with music and are perfectly happy listening to something that seems to sound fine to them.
My review will try to distinguish what I believe the audible differences are between the two systems for someone who is asking - what do I get with the Studio Sound package vs. the std. package.
I am basing my assessment from listening to my primary source material - Slacker radio. I won't get into the issues of varying source quality, source material compression or other technical issues. I will say that the way I tested was to link my Signature Model S slacker account to the loaner car I'm driving, then listen to the same custom channels I created. I primarily listen to jazz (a wide variety of jazz styles from different periods and Slacker has wildly varying quality of source material, so I think it is an adequate test for the purposes of this review).
My quick summary - Studio sound system has more bass clarity, presence and volume. Studio sound has a more realistic sound stage, more clarity of highs and mids and better overall tonal balance and more dimensional depth to the sound. Standard sounds is fairly good stereo sound and adequate. I am pleased I decided to get the Studio sound package and am pleased with what I received for the money I paid. (I will also say I'm considering upgrading the sound system in my car even more because I think the Studio sound package is still lacking, but I won't get into a detailed review of that here because my intention is to talk about the Standard sound system compared to the Studio Sound).
Detailed thoughts:
Standard sound is a pretty good system for a base system. There is stereo separation and some level of clarity to the system and you can hear most of the music in the frequency spectrum (though not necessarily with an even frequency response) if you adjust the EQ on the system. It can perform adequately at low to normal listening levels (I would define normal as a level where you can still have a conversation with your passenger in the front or back seats). But at higher Sound Pressure Levels (SPL) the system will start to show it's weaknesses even more. If you want a balance across the low, mid and high frequencies, you won't really achieve it with the standard system.
Low frequencies are there if you turn up the bass EQ (I was running it +7 or more dB), but the bass is muddy and the depth is not there even when it's cranked (due to the lack of a subwoofer). If you want any illusion of having your teeth rattled with bass, you will not achieve it with the standard system and have the bass sound clear and even. The speakers that are part of the standard system don't provide the bass response to do it.
Mid frequencies: They are also what I'd call muddy. They are there, but the response is not really even (related to not having a subwoofer in my opinion and having the door speakers have to do quite a bit of work with the lower frequency spectrum). At lower sound levels, you can get them to sound reasonable and you can be pleased with the sound, but it will not give you that sense dimensionality and being there.
High frequencies: They sound clear, but the depth isn't there. If you want to get the best out of your standard sound system, you should adjust the EQ of the system as your volume changes. You don't get that shimmer of a cymbal or the sibilance of a voice singing in an intimate club atmosphere. It's just missing that slight crispness that can draw you into the music.
Sound stage: It's very one dimensional (Left/Right) It feels like stereo (as it should) but it doesn't have that front to back depth in the sound. This is different from simply moving the sound stage from the front to the rear speakers. The dimensionality of the sound stage doesn't convey the sense that there are instruments behind a singer for example, or that the band is playing on a stage with any front to back depth.
Ability at varying SPL's: The system can do well at lower or normal listening levels because the high frequency sounds have a decent quality about them and the mid's are reasonably good, but you really have to massage the EQ to get them to work (again, this is all in my opinion and for my musical tastes). But the bass is where the system just can't do it. At low volumes, to get any bass presence, you have to really boost the bass EQ. Even when you do the bass response is not smooth (certain bass frequencies sound much louder than others). It's really noticeable in small instrumental jazz combo music or big band ballad music. As the volume level goes up, the bass really starts to struggle. It doesn't distort much in the standard package at higher levels, but the response gets really uneven.
Now I'll give you some of my opinion on what I think of it for my personal tastes: It is a system I can live with if I didn't have a choice. It sounds good enough that I could enjoy it for what it does and does not do. It doesn't detract from the material I play through it in the sense that there isn't glaring distortion or soundstage issues. It's a pleasing system for what it is as a standard system. There are some car sound systems that I will not even both listening to music with (I'll listen to audiobooks or the spoken word with them) because listening to music through it is so distracting (distortion, coloration, missing frequencies etc.). The standard Model S sound system is not distracting from the music. If I get out of my critical listening mode and just have a good track playing, I do enjoy that track of music. I don't hear all the nuances and some of the instruments are almost not there, but the system still produces enough of the content in a manner that I can listen to for me to enjoy it.
But if you are the type that even is thinking of upgrading because you want better sound, you will get better sound by upgrading to the Studio Sound package. You will get more bass SPL and you will get a more even and detailed bass presentation. Your sound stage will be more dimensional with more of a sense of being there. The overall channel separation will be better and the clarity of your mid and high frequencies will be stronger. You will have more control of your frequency response with the built in EQ that the car has (Especially the Bass EQ fader). You will be able to achieve higher overall SPL level's and maintain quality in your sound. The way I would describe it is that the Standard sound system is like listening to something with some cotton in your ears and the Studio sound is taking that cotton out of your ears to hear more clearly and dimensionally. The analogy may be a bit extreme, but I think it conveys the sense of what the differences are.
What 'good' sound consists of can be a very subjective subject. Different people have different musical tastes, sensitivities, hearing capabilities etc. It's a highly personalized and individualized issue. Use your own filter as you read this review and discern what is important to you and weigh that in the context of the different strengths and weaknesses of the two audio systems available in the Model S.
I will say upfront that my review is not going to try to answer the question 'is it worth the money to upgrade' because I believe that is a very subjective issue. Some people love to be involved in the music they listen to, so they are willing to pay huge sums of money to try to achieve that effect. Others are not as involved with music and are perfectly happy listening to something that seems to sound fine to them.
My review will try to distinguish what I believe the audible differences are between the two systems for someone who is asking - what do I get with the Studio Sound package vs. the std. package.
I am basing my assessment from listening to my primary source material - Slacker radio. I won't get into the issues of varying source quality, source material compression or other technical issues. I will say that the way I tested was to link my Signature Model S slacker account to the loaner car I'm driving, then listen to the same custom channels I created. I primarily listen to jazz (a wide variety of jazz styles from different periods and Slacker has wildly varying quality of source material, so I think it is an adequate test for the purposes of this review).
My quick summary - Studio sound system has more bass clarity, presence and volume. Studio sound has a more realistic sound stage, more clarity of highs and mids and better overall tonal balance and more dimensional depth to the sound. Standard sounds is fairly good stereo sound and adequate. I am pleased I decided to get the Studio sound package and am pleased with what I received for the money I paid. (I will also say I'm considering upgrading the sound system in my car even more because I think the Studio sound package is still lacking, but I won't get into a detailed review of that here because my intention is to talk about the Standard sound system compared to the Studio Sound).
Detailed thoughts:
Standard sound is a pretty good system for a base system. There is stereo separation and some level of clarity to the system and you can hear most of the music in the frequency spectrum (though not necessarily with an even frequency response) if you adjust the EQ on the system. It can perform adequately at low to normal listening levels (I would define normal as a level where you can still have a conversation with your passenger in the front or back seats). But at higher Sound Pressure Levels (SPL) the system will start to show it's weaknesses even more. If you want a balance across the low, mid and high frequencies, you won't really achieve it with the standard system.
Low frequencies are there if you turn up the bass EQ (I was running it +7 or more dB), but the bass is muddy and the depth is not there even when it's cranked (due to the lack of a subwoofer). If you want any illusion of having your teeth rattled with bass, you will not achieve it with the standard system and have the bass sound clear and even. The speakers that are part of the standard system don't provide the bass response to do it.
Mid frequencies: They are also what I'd call muddy. They are there, but the response is not really even (related to not having a subwoofer in my opinion and having the door speakers have to do quite a bit of work with the lower frequency spectrum). At lower sound levels, you can get them to sound reasonable and you can be pleased with the sound, but it will not give you that sense dimensionality and being there.
High frequencies: They sound clear, but the depth isn't there. If you want to get the best out of your standard sound system, you should adjust the EQ of the system as your volume changes. You don't get that shimmer of a cymbal or the sibilance of a voice singing in an intimate club atmosphere. It's just missing that slight crispness that can draw you into the music.
Sound stage: It's very one dimensional (Left/Right) It feels like stereo (as it should) but it doesn't have that front to back depth in the sound. This is different from simply moving the sound stage from the front to the rear speakers. The dimensionality of the sound stage doesn't convey the sense that there are instruments behind a singer for example, or that the band is playing on a stage with any front to back depth.
Ability at varying SPL's: The system can do well at lower or normal listening levels because the high frequency sounds have a decent quality about them and the mid's are reasonably good, but you really have to massage the EQ to get them to work (again, this is all in my opinion and for my musical tastes). But the bass is where the system just can't do it. At low volumes, to get any bass presence, you have to really boost the bass EQ. Even when you do the bass response is not smooth (certain bass frequencies sound much louder than others). It's really noticeable in small instrumental jazz combo music or big band ballad music. As the volume level goes up, the bass really starts to struggle. It doesn't distort much in the standard package at higher levels, but the response gets really uneven.
Now I'll give you some of my opinion on what I think of it for my personal tastes: It is a system I can live with if I didn't have a choice. It sounds good enough that I could enjoy it for what it does and does not do. It doesn't detract from the material I play through it in the sense that there isn't glaring distortion or soundstage issues. It's a pleasing system for what it is as a standard system. There are some car sound systems that I will not even both listening to music with (I'll listen to audiobooks or the spoken word with them) because listening to music through it is so distracting (distortion, coloration, missing frequencies etc.). The standard Model S sound system is not distracting from the music. If I get out of my critical listening mode and just have a good track playing, I do enjoy that track of music. I don't hear all the nuances and some of the instruments are almost not there, but the system still produces enough of the content in a manner that I can listen to for me to enjoy it.
But if you are the type that even is thinking of upgrading because you want better sound, you will get better sound by upgrading to the Studio Sound package. You will get more bass SPL and you will get a more even and detailed bass presentation. Your sound stage will be more dimensional with more of a sense of being there. The overall channel separation will be better and the clarity of your mid and high frequencies will be stronger. You will have more control of your frequency response with the built in EQ that the car has (Especially the Bass EQ fader). You will be able to achieve higher overall SPL level's and maintain quality in your sound. The way I would describe it is that the Standard sound system is like listening to something with some cotton in your ears and the Studio sound is taking that cotton out of your ears to hear more clearly and dimensionally. The analogy may be a bit extreme, but I think it conveys the sense of what the differences are.
What 'good' sound consists of can be a very subjective subject. Different people have different musical tastes, sensitivities, hearing capabilities etc. It's a highly personalized and individualized issue. Use your own filter as you read this review and discern what is important to you and weigh that in the context of the different strengths and weaknesses of the two audio systems available in the Model S.
Last edited:
Volker.Berlin
Member
Thanks for the review! Enjoyed reading it, and I'm glad I decided to upgrade to the "Sound Studio" after finalizing without it first. Actually I mostly upgraded for the European digital broadcast radio which seems to be unavailable with the standard system, but while I'm at it, I may as well enjoy the sound without "cotton in my ears"! ;-)
JPP
Active Member
I would like to weigh in here, now that I have had a chance to compare my standard audio system with the factory Sound Studio version. I just picked up a loaner P85 'full spec' (not +) #15790 at the Fremont service center-presumably very recent production (800 miles). I must say that I basically agree with the excellent and detailed review by Blurry-Eyed above. My formative years were spent listening to 60' & 70's rock music, so my hearing is sub-par. To my 'tin ear', my standard system is fine for radio (which I listen to a lot for traffic & news), and for my ripped (@256k) iTunes collection (either played from a USB drive or via Bluetooth from my iPhone). I do not really use Internet radio nor do I use XM. I do agree that the Sound Studio system in the loaner has better bass, better clarity, and more 'presence'. For many folks the $950 investment would be worth it. However, last weekend I had the opportunity to attend Teslive and listen to both the Reus system and Ed & Al's system, which are impressively better than the factory Sound Studio system. If it were my $$ and ear, I would skip the $950 upgrade, and pay the $3000-4000 for the custom systems. They are head & shoulders above the Tesla system, especially the bass but also the mid-and-high ranges. However do note that if you do not get the Sound Studio system, you will not have the XM front end and full Dolby pro-logic, so be aware.
YMMV.
YMMV.
Here is one more opinion for those trying to decide on the Standard vs the Sound Studio option. As a reference I believe I have an above average ear and can usually hear the things audiophiles do without problem.
My friend's Model S was in the shop the other day and he was loaned an S60 with Standard sound. We were able to A-B compare it to my S60 with Sound Studio using the same FLAC sources via USB thumb drive and used the same EQ settings: +10.0 bass, 0.0 mid, +2.0 treble, -7 fade (which are my personal favorites). Dolby was off on the Sound Studio car.
1. Sound Studio is louder for the same volume level, e.g. 7 with Studio is louder than 7 with Standard.
2. The bass is tighter and better defined with Studio, definitely truer. It is less well defined and also has less volume in the lower fundamentals with Standard. IMO, however, most people would not find the bass unacceptable with Standard. Remember the bass was set to my preferred +10.0 on both cars with fade at -7.
3. The midrange and treble were slightly less clear and crisp with Standard. But again, IMO most people would not find them unacceptable.
After having read on the forums how inferior Standard sound I was actually pleasantly surprised. Standard sound is definitely not as high fidelity as Sound Studio but it is decent and for most folks it probably would suffice very well to absolutely fine.
For those folks with an above average ear but limited discretionary capital Sound Studio is probably a good compromise. For most folks, Standard sound is going to be absolutely fine. Audiophiles are not going to be happy with either and those with the money will likely spend several thousand dollars for an upgrade so should not spend the $950 on Sound Studio to begin with.
My friend's Model S was in the shop the other day and he was loaned an S60 with Standard sound. We were able to A-B compare it to my S60 with Sound Studio using the same FLAC sources via USB thumb drive and used the same EQ settings: +10.0 bass, 0.0 mid, +2.0 treble, -7 fade (which are my personal favorites). Dolby was off on the Sound Studio car.
1. Sound Studio is louder for the same volume level, e.g. 7 with Studio is louder than 7 with Standard.
2. The bass is tighter and better defined with Studio, definitely truer. It is less well defined and also has less volume in the lower fundamentals with Standard. IMO, however, most people would not find the bass unacceptable with Standard. Remember the bass was set to my preferred +10.0 on both cars with fade at -7.
3. The midrange and treble were slightly less clear and crisp with Standard. But again, IMO most people would not find them unacceptable.
After having read on the forums how inferior Standard sound I was actually pleasantly surprised. Standard sound is definitely not as high fidelity as Sound Studio but it is decent and for most folks it probably would suffice very well to absolutely fine.
For those folks with an above average ear but limited discretionary capital Sound Studio is probably a good compromise. For most folks, Standard sound is going to be absolutely fine. Audiophiles are not going to be happy with either and those with the money will likely spend several thousand dollars for an upgrade so should not spend the $950 on Sound Studio to begin with.
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