Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Audio connectivity, Qobuz, Hi-res?

Zacster

Member
Sep 11, 2017
137
60
NYC
I don't think anyone is asking for Qobuz to be added to Tesla Knightshade. At least that is not my understanding. The gripe is the lack of audio input options.

The only path presently to stream external music is a bluetooth link using lossy compressed AAC encoding. If Tesla added a simple analog input anyone could play back their own source from a phone at a much higher quality. Another option would be if they provided a high speed digital input via USB port.

I don't think a preloaded USB stick is really a contender for this discussion. The streaming capability is an essential part of the operation. Also, one would have to own the music before they could copy it to the stick I believe.
yes, exactly.
 

gnomen

Member
Mar 22, 2021
7
2
UK
I can't tell you how long it took to fill up my USB music storage I keep in the car- because I just started the copy then went and did other stuff. Later, it was done, and I moved it to the car.
Frankly, this is just obtuse. The whole argument you are providing is wrong-headed. For 10 years most manufacturers have made it possible for you to listen to whatever you want, in a variety of ways, and at the quality you want. Maybe you would like a 6-CD stack player installed in the trunk as well?

That's an entire decade which has not happened yet for Tesla. Maybe you are the head of their media design team? Pre-loaded USBs? Give me a break. Give us all a break.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,897
16,413
NC
I don't think anyone is asking for Qobuz to be added to Tesla Knightshade. At least that is not my understanding.

It is not mine- based on:

Audio companies are falling all over each other putting Qobuz on their systems, companies much smaller than Tesla. I don't think the technical expertise needed is all that great. I can put it on a lowly Raspberry Pi.

and

Qobuz has 70 million tracks to choose from according to their website...Once you have access to it you don't want to be bothered with anything else....
As both Gnomen, rjpjnk and myself have said, this limitation in the Tesla is archaic.



Sure sounds like he's asking for it to be added, pointing out how other companies (not named) are "falling all over each other" to do so and how "easy" it should be and how "archaic" teslas lack of it is.




Frankly, this is just obtuse. The whole argument you are providing is wrong-headed.

Dude- YOU are the one who started the "OMG COPYING TO USB TAKES TOO LONG" argument.

Don't be mad when someone points out how silly that objection is because nobody sits there staring at it waiting.



For 10 years most manufacturers have made it possible for you to listen to whatever you want

And for 100 years they built stinky gasoline cars.

Teslas entire interface on the 3/Y is built around one large display and controls, and reports, every bit of info to and from the car.

They have zero interest in turning that display over to 3rd parties , and a lot of good reasons that's true.

So your choices are:

Stream "whatever you want" over BT using Teslas built-in interface for doing so
or
Use the streaming services built in
or
Play locally from a USB storage source using the built in interface



They've added new built in streaming sources- and plan to add more.

Including a high bitrate one (Tidal).


If none of that is sufficient to not ruin the car for you, I'm sure a Ford dealer will be happy to sell you a marked up Mach E with android auto and carplay and whatever





If Tesla added a simple analog input anyone could play back their own source from a phone at a much higher quality.

Most phones no longer have an analog port so once again you're asking them to add a niche solution (and asking them to add hardware to do it).

Another option would be if they provided a high speed digital input via USB port.

FWIW I DO think it's goofy you can't play LOCAL music off the phone just as you would off a 'dumb' USB storage device-- but that doesn't seem like it'd make the folks upset here any happier anyway.

Adding streaming this way is a whole other can of worms as it's no longer a case of the built-in Tesla player interacting with "storage" but requires interacting with 3rd party apps on your phone
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
FWIW I DO think it's goofy you can't play LOCAL music off the phone just as you would off a 'dumb' USB storage device-- but that doesn't seem like it'd make the folks upset here any happier anyway.

Adding streaming this way is a whole other can of worms as it's no longer a case of the built-in Tesla player interacting with "storage" but requires interacting with 3rd party apps on your phone
Yes! I think this is exactly the kind of solution we are asking for. The phone already "owns" the internet, use it! In most modern cars, the car infotainment system embraces this and provides efficient ways to work with the phone to enhance the user experience (i.e., Apple Play/Android Audio). Tesla seems to be resisting this.

At present the only method to play high res at all is a USB stick as already pointed out several times. It is nice to know this method exists but as others have said it is archaic and not relevant to the streaming world mindset.

So looking forward, there are two possible paths I can envision.

(1) Tesla adds a high bitrate streaming service to its console. Then all we need to do is pay 9.95/mo and it is done. If they do add Tidal as mentioned, this would work, but only if it is truly lossless streaming. I'm concerned this may be too much bitrate for the 9/95/mo cellular plan though.

(2) Tesla adds a method for users to inject high res audio from their own source into the existing system through an aux in option (either digital or analog). This is the most universal solution and in my opinion should be standard in any modern car regardless of what the OEM infotainment offers. Mostly because it is so simple and inexpensive to implement and satisfies a wide range of users.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,897
16,413
NC
Yes! I think this is exactly the kind of solution we are asking for. The phone already "owns" the internet, use it! In most modern cars, the car infotainment system embraces this and provides efficient ways to work with the phone to enhance the user experience (i.e., Apple Play/Android Audio). Tesla seems to be resisting this.

Already covered why.

Since the screen is your entire interface to the car, they do not want to give up control of it to a 3rd party.

I wouldn't expect that to change.




At present the only method to play high res at all is a USB stick as already pointed out several times. It is nice to know this method exists but as others have said it is archaic and not relevant to the streaming world mindset.

So looking forward, there are two possible paths I can envision.

(1) Tesla adds a high bitrate streaming service to its console. Then all we need to do is pay 9.95/mo and it is done. If they do add Tidal as mentioned, this would work, but only if it is truly lossless streaming. I'm concerned this may be too much bitrate for the 9/95/mo cellular plan though.

That's the one you're going to get... though I agree remains to be seen if unlocked bitrate is included....

I'm torn, because they've explicitly locked this out on other streaming services, but those never offered SUPER high quality anyway whereas quality is kind of the entire point of Tidal- so perhaps adding it would be the exception there, since why even add it otherwise?

If they do add it and still lock down bitrate to be crap, you'd have a very valid objection.


(2) Tesla adds a method for users to inject high res audio from their own source into the existing system through an aux in option (either digital or analog). This is the most universal solution and in my opinion should be standard in any modern car regardless of what the OEM infotainment offers. Mostly because it is so simple and inexpensive to implement and satisfies a wide range of users.

Analog is not happening. As I mention, most phones don't even support it anymore, and it would require adding HW and cost, which isn't something Tesla does.

Digital- as in treating your phone as "dumb" USB storage, that'd be easy.... though it doesn't "get" you anything- at all- other than saving 20 bucks on not needing to buy a USB key, but "losing" the fact it'd need to reindex every time you plugged in.... so it's easy but doesn't really make a ton of sense as a thing to do.

Digital to send streaming from 3rd party apps- less easy... what's your interface? How does the car know how to talk to "Whatever random streaming app a million different people prefer" to control it? You'd probably end up with pause/play and not much else in the way of controls at best...and still end up needing to use your phone for most of your controls- which is obviously not great.... a native app with the full interface will be a ton better.

(Folks went through this with spotify before they added it as native in the US- to the point folks had written 3rd party browser apps to make the experience of using spotify on your phone nearer a native app)
 

Zacster

Member
Sep 11, 2017
137
60
NYC
Already covered why.

Since the screen is your entire interface to the car, they do not want to give up control of it to a 3rd party.

I wouldn't expect that to change.
They don't have to. Just let us stream from our phones using UPnP or Airplay.
That's the one you're going to get... though I agree remains to be seen if unlocked bitrate is included....

I'm torn, because they've explicitly locked this out on other streaming services, but those never offered SUPER high quality anyway whereas quality is kind of the entire point of Tidal- so perhaps adding it would be the exception there, since why even add it otherwise?

If they do add it and still lock down bitrate to be crap, you'd have a very valid objection.
It would be pointless to add another lo-res service. They all have the same music. The problem with Tidal is MQA, which requires its own decoding/unfolding. But I'd go with it if offered in full quality.
Analog is not happening. As I mention, most phones don't even support it anymore, and it would require adding HW and cost, which isn't something Tesla does.

Digital- as in treating your phone as "dumb" USB storage, that'd be easy.... though it doesn't "get" you anything- at all- other than saving 20 bucks on not needing to buy a USB key, but "losing" the fact it'd need to reindex every time you plugged in.... so it's easy but doesn't really make a ton of sense as a thing to do.

Digital to send streaming from 3rd party apps- less easy... what's your interface? How does the car know how to talk to "Whatever random streaming app a million different people prefer" to control it? You'd probably end up with pause/play and not much else in the way of controls at best...and still end up needing to use your phone for most of your controls- which is obviously not great.... a native app with the full interface will be a ton better.

(Folks went through this with spotify before they added it as native in the US- to the point folks had written 3rd party browser apps to make the experience of using spotify on your phone nearer a native app)
For a phone the hardware cost is the cost of an external DAC if it doesn't have a jack. That's what I used in my minivan to get 24/96 output from my phone into the aux in.

Seeing the phone as a mass storage device I agree is pretty useless.

While it would be preferable to control it from the car's screen, the phone controls already do it and I'm ok with using the phone. I'm not sure if the USB standard would allow the device to control the host on an audio stream. I know with Bluetooth I get forward/back/pause/stop. My guess is the same service is available over USB and it could be implemented in the same way. A knowledgeable programmer could knock this out in a day. Of course it would then go through a gazillion levels of testing, review and sign off and then audit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rjpjnk

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,897
16,413
NC
They don't have to. Just let us stream from our phones using UPnP or Airplay.

IIRC implementing airplay requires paying apple a license fee (and possibly requires a HW chip- unclear on that) so that's a non-starter.

UPnP over wifi is an interesting idea but what's the server here? I don't think Android or iOS can send streaming audio this way by default right?


It would be pointless to add another lo-res service. They all have the same music

But not everyone has the same subscription.

Folks who already have Prime get amazon music- so they want that (and it's allegedly being added soon)

iOS mainstream folks want Apple Music- and it's allegedly being added soon.

They seem to prioritize by the largest subscriber bases.


. The problem with Tidal is MQA, which requires its own decoding/unfolding. But I'd go with it if offered in full quality.

More I think about it, the more it doesn't make a ton of sense they'd add it at all if they're gonna limit to the same 64 or 96 kbs crap of the existing services.


For a phone the hardware cost is the cost of an external DAC if it doesn't have a jack.

I mean the hardware on the car.

Tesla is not going to spend any money adding cost and manufacturing and supply chain complexity to add an analog jack- especially one most people can't even use without adding HW on the client end too.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,668
1,075
Syracuse, NY
Tidal is MQA if you are listening to master quality. You don't need master quality in your car AND you can't even stream master quality to the car using the LTE connection.

All anyone needs is High Quality or Hi-Fi, even Hi-Fi is pointless in the car.
 

Zacster

Member
Sep 11, 2017
137
60
NYC
Tidal is MQA if you are listening to master quality. You don't need master quality in your car AND you can't even stream master quality to the car using the LTE connection.

All anyone needs is High Quality or Hi-Fi, even Hi-Fi is pointless in the car.
Why do you say that? I was using 24/96 in my minivan and it made a big difference. I know I'll get the argument about whether I could actually distinguish but the one thing it was not was grating. Compressed audio is always grating, and will sound OK to most people until they hear the same song in hi-res. Since the Tesla is so quiet it would make even more of a difference.

At the moment I have a hi-res playlist going on Qobuz at home over my system using DLNA from my computer. It sounds superb. "Southern Man" by Neil Young in 24/192 right now.

As for MQA, it should be possible with LTE, after all my iPhone was running that in the car for Qobuz, but I don't know if the Tesla's cell connection is up to the task, and if not, why not? For that matter on the way home in the car just now I had the same playlist on and my phone is still set to hi-res. It played just fine.
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
I found this device that adds Apple Car Play and a bunch of other stuff to the Model 3/Y.
I still need to learn about it but so far it looks very interesting. I thought it best to start a new thread here. Please check it out.


EDIT: I just learned that there is already a 4-page thread discussing this that started back in December, so go there instead. Glad to see it is getting attention.

 
Last edited:

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,897
16,413
NC
I found this device that adds Apple Car Play and a bunch of other stuff to the Model 3/Y.
I still need to learn about it but so far it looks very interesting. I thought it best to start a new thread here. Please check it out.




If as the thread suggests it's BT from device to car stereo then that gets you nothing useful quality-wise vs just going directly phone to car via BT.
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
Agreed. But I need to learn more. At any rate, I am encouraged to see progress being made integrating with the Tesla signaling electronics like this. This could open up a whole world of options for those wanting customization and leave Tesla free to work on what they do best.
 

sduck

Mr. Duck
Nov 6, 2017
1,460
1,448
Nashville TN
Currently, Slacker (or LiveXlive as it's currently rebranding itself), and Tunein. And FM radio. No AM. There's a caraoke app also, not sure if that counts as a "music service", although it can be entertaining at times.
 

Zacster

Member
Sep 11, 2017
137
60
NYC
We have a caraoke app that most people will never use but can't put hi-res into the car. And yet I get flack for wanting something every other car has...
 
  • Like
Reactions: rjpjnk

miatadan

Member
Apr 1, 2016
42
13
Canada
Currently, Slacker (or LiveXlive as it's currently rebranding itself), and Tunein. And FM radio. No AM. There's a caraoke app also, not sure if that counts as a "music service", although it can be entertaining at times.
I had to lookup LiveXlive, what is sound quality compared to Tidal, Apple Music etc
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,897
16,413
NC
I had to lookup LiveXlive, what is sound quality compared to Tidal, Apple Music etc


This isn't a question of the service, but the client- Tesla limits bitrate on all the current various in-car streaming apps to 64-128 kb/s (varies in confusing ways between models and configs and services- but you have no control over it anyway)

There's allegedly a bunch more services coming in the next major SW update (apple music, amazon music, audible, pandora, tidal, etc) but folks've been waiting a while for said update now
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
We have a caraoke app that most people will never use but can't put hi-res into the car. And yet I get flack for wanting something every other car has...
How ironic. Caraoke is fine but high res audio is a niche market that not enough people want to justify the cost of an aux in jack? 🤯
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,897
16,413
NC
How ironic. Caraoke is fine but high res audio is a niche market that not enough people want to justify the cost of an aux in jack? 🤯


Given one requires hardware and one does not- yeah.

Adding HW adds:

Cost of the actual HW.

Time (which is also cost) and complexity (also cost) during MFG.

Time (which is also cost) and complexity (also cost) in supply chain- both sourcing the HW to add to the car, insuring a steady supply for future cars, and also a supply to service centers for repairs of said HW.

Tesla is pretty aggressive about not adding a bunch of extra physical HW to cars to reduce cost and complexity through the entire business.

The refreshed S/X are even getting rid of the stalks on the steering wheel (the ones currently used for shifting gears, turn signals, and autopilot controls)
 

Zacster

Member
Sep 11, 2017
137
60
NYC
And yet every other manufacturer has managed to do this. So where is an equivalent in the software?
This is the most complex car around from an electronics standpoint, almost everything built from scratch. But a $2 additional part would break Elon's $176B bank account? My heart bleeds...
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top