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Autonomous Car Progress
- Thread starter stopcrazypp
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- Autonomous Vehicles
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
It's not hard to find them. You just need to do a simple youtube search. Me and other posters have shared videos that we've found.
powertoold
Active Member
Really? I'm having a lot of trouble finding owners' videos. What search terms are you using? I only find car reviewers and dealership videos.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Here are some examples of good supercruise videos I found by just typing in "gm supercruise":
But what's wrong with car reviewers or official videos from the manufacturer? They can be very informative.
IMO, this is a phony strawman that unless there are a gazillion "amateur" videos from car owners that you deem "stress test" enough, then the ADAS is not good enough. The number of videos from car owners has no correlation on how capable the system is. You are just saying that because you know Tesla owners make a lot of viral videos so you know there will be more Tesla videos.
To be fair, those systems are used almost exclusively in China and Youtube is officially banned there (they have to jump the firewall to access youtube). Also they would likely be in Chinese, so unless there are those targeting English speaking audiences, it would be hard to find.
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powertoold
Active Member
Sure, if you enjoy being manipulated by videos that have an obvious bias or possible conflict of interest, then sobeit.
Like I said, why is it so hard to find actual owners using the features from other manufacturers?
I think it's because the features aren't good or aren't useful enough in real world situations. When I watch SuperCruise videos, it often turns off without any explanation or sound, other than the steering light turns red. It's the same for Tesla's smart summon. Beyond people showing off on youtube in empty parking lots, few people actually use smart summon on a routine basis. That's why we rarely see it other than for jokes and giggles. Many youtubers have given up tracking its progress with updates. It's because smart summon sucks for real world use.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Lack of them from the chinese companies was explained pretty well by stopcrazypp
Lack of them for Caddy is probably because the average caddy buyer is too old to know what youtube is.
powertoold
Active Member
You do find a lot of NIO videos on YouTube but usually unrelated to their ADAS. I don't even know what to say about this one:
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
And FSD Beta videos don't have any bias or conflict of interest? Please!
This is just a strawman. The lack of videos could simply be that the owners don't care about doing youtube videos. Frankly, I doubt Caddy, Mercedes or Nissan owners are in the demographic of people who do viral youtube videos to stress test their ADAS. Tesla owners like to promote Tesla and get clicks to get referrals so they do a ton of videos. But most car owners just use their cars for daily practical needs and don't feel the need to do videos every day. Just because owners don't do a ton of videos to show off their car's ADAS does not mean the ADAS is bad.
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powertoold
Active Member
I'm not looking for a ton, any stress test video at all? Any owners? For example, Mobileye "L2+" lane keeping actually being put through its paces? Isn't that the whole point of assessing autonomy progress? I don't understand your willingness to take all these marketing type videos by their face value.
It's interesting, but it's simple when someone's entire premise is
- Tesla has lost
- Others have won/are better/more advanced/...etc...
It costs a lot of money to get into Tesla's FSD beta program: you need to buy an expensive car with the $10k FSD option and hope you get selected. Unfortunately, Tesla is infamously stingy on their advertising and marketing budgets so you'll be doing everything for free.
The other companies: they'll probably loan you a car, give you talking points, help with editing, fly you out and house you if needed, provide a food stipend, and additional compensation. All of this is already baked into their massive marketing and advertising budgets.
- Tesla has lost
- Others have won/are better/more advanced/...etc...
It costs a lot of money to get into Tesla's FSD beta program: you need to buy an expensive car with the $10k FSD option and hope you get selected. Unfortunately, Tesla is infamously stingy on their advertising and marketing budgets so you'll be doing everything for free.
The other companies: they'll probably loan you a car, give you talking points, help with editing, fly you out and house you if needed, provide a food stipend, and additional compensation. All of this is already baked into their massive marketing and advertising budgets.
Yeah. I watched some of the Xpeng vs Tesla Model 3 videos by the Chinese media when Xpeng released their beta. Xpeng had an R&D center that where they had a fleet of Model 3 that the media could use to compare (the media wouldn't have had to even loan their own Model 3 to do so!). Basically the location limited the route you can use to compare the cars (although I don't remember if they explicitly had a set route that they told the media to travel). It's pretty obvious to see that may not necessarily result in the most fair comparison (although to be fair, some of the media did try to give their most objective take even under the circumstances). That's putting aside the point of the latest beta vs production software that had been out for a while and in consumer hands.
Here in the USA, with the PR department dead, even media loaners from Tesla would not be possible (media would have to get a regular loaner just like any consumer or borrow a car from an owner). Forget about the possibility of "ringers" with Tesla.
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diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I recall watching a few Xpeng car review videos by Bjorn last year. Xpeng loaned cars to Bjorn to test drive and review and he also made an intro for them. The birds-eye view and autopark seemed really good and was way better than Tesla's current implementation. I don't use Autopark on my Tesla, but the birds-eye view would be nice.
I recall Bjorn saying Xpeng paid Fully Charged (don't know them and don't watch) for a review or something. Bjorn had a part of the Fully Charged video, but didn't take any compensation from Xpeng. He thought it was fair trade for them loaning him cars and wanted to stay friendly with them.
Reviewing Tesla is pretty simple now. You order a car, pay for it, and do whatever you want with it like any other owner. I guess they can rent or borrow from a generous owners. I'm sure this has been rather difficult for the mainstream media, but they're going to have to get used to it. I'm a long-term Consumer Reports subscriber and they've been buying their review cars forever. This is way better than getting "ringers" or specially prepared review cars that aren't what consumers will get.
I recall Bjorn saying Xpeng paid Fully Charged (don't know them and don't watch) for a review or something. Bjorn had a part of the Fully Charged video, but didn't take any compensation from Xpeng. He thought it was fair trade for them loaning him cars and wanted to stay friendly with them.
Reviewing Tesla is pretty simple now. You order a car, pay for it, and do whatever you want with it like any other owner. I guess they can rent or borrow from a generous owners. I'm sure this has been rather difficult for the mainstream media, but they're going to have to get used to it. I'm a long-term Consumer Reports subscriber and they've been buying their review cars forever. This is way better than getting "ringers" or specially prepared review cars that aren't what consumers will get.
Only Enhanced Supercruise fits the bill if one wants to compare it against EAP, and I agree with others in that whatever the system it needs to be available in North America. Something happening in China, or Japan isn't that useful aside from letting me know where Tesla's ADAS system stands in comparison internationally speaking.
I've made no secret of my hate for NoA in its current iteration, but much of what I dislike isn't even talked about anymore because all the videos/discussion is on FSD beta and who knows if/when that will get a general release.
The enhanced supercruise is close to what I want, but its still a miss. It's a miss because it doesn't seem to have unconfirmed lane changes. It's really just Basic AP + AutoLane Change. There doesn't seem be the equivalent of NoA. It's also a miss because clearly it didn't identify the car coming into its lane. Now sure NoA might or might not react (I've seen both), but I already consider NoA a failure.
At this point I'd say I'm disappointed all around.
Enhanced Supercruise doesn't seem to be what I was hoping for
Rivian seems to be doing their own thing versus using MobileEye as far as I can tell
Tesla seems stuck FSD beta wise.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I thought this was interesting since we don't get a lot of autonomous driving videos in winter weather. I found this video from Sensible 4, a Finnish company, testing their FSD stack in arctic weather conditions as you can see in the video. Roads were completely covered with snow and temps were -20 Celsius.
Here is a bit on their FSD technology from their website:
In the centre of it all, is our LiDAR-based positioning that enable self-driving vehicles to operate in any kind of weather or environment. Our technology is truly one of a kind and brings several unique benefits to our customers. The software filters out outliers from the air, such as snow, rain and fog – and allows autonomous vehicles to drive on roads without lane markers and landmarks.
Our full stack solution consists of 4 modules:
positioning stack, obstacle detection, control stack, and fleet operation.
Technology - Sensible 4
Here is a bit on their FSD technology from their website:
In the centre of it all, is our LiDAR-based positioning that enable self-driving vehicles to operate in any kind of weather or environment. Our technology is truly one of a kind and brings several unique benefits to our customers. The software filters out outliers from the air, such as snow, rain and fog – and allows autonomous vehicles to drive on roads without lane markers and landmarks.
Our full stack solution consists of 4 modules:
positioning stack, obstacle detection, control stack, and fleet operation.
Technology - Sensible 4
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diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Waymo just posted a bog detailing how they are expanding there testing in San Francisco:
The most informative sections IMO:
"We’ve optimized the Waymo Driver’s 360° vision system and lidar to navigate the complexities of urban driving. Our highly sensitive cameras can spot traffic lights changing at a long distance – even among the papel picado on 24th Street – to enable smooth driving. And our cameras and lidar can instantly spot a jaywalker sprinting across our path and act appropriately – even when they emerge suddenly from behind a vehicle in the oncoming lane."
"We’ve also designed our software to reason about the context, which is essential for driving safely in busy cities. Our perception system lets our Driver know how to handle a pedestrian, a tree – and a pedestrian carrying a Christmas tree. If we pull up next to a bus by a crosswalk on Beach Street in Fisherman’s Wharf, our Driver can reason that hidden passengers may be getting off, and that they may soon cross the street."
"We’re also building greater flexibility into our driving software to handle unexpected changes to the road. If we’re driving on 19th Avenue during road work and our sensors spot traffic cones and road work signs, our perception system understands that they are guiding us out of the usual lane, and our planning and routing systems can automatically update the vehicle’s route to navigate the new layout."
Waypoint - The official Waymo blog: Expanding our testing in San Francisco
The most informative sections IMO:
"We’ve optimized the Waymo Driver’s 360° vision system and lidar to navigate the complexities of urban driving. Our highly sensitive cameras can spot traffic lights changing at a long distance – even among the papel picado on 24th Street – to enable smooth driving. And our cameras and lidar can instantly spot a jaywalker sprinting across our path and act appropriately – even when they emerge suddenly from behind a vehicle in the oncoming lane."
"We’ve also designed our software to reason about the context, which is essential for driving safely in busy cities. Our perception system lets our Driver know how to handle a pedestrian, a tree – and a pedestrian carrying a Christmas tree. If we pull up next to a bus by a crosswalk on Beach Street in Fisherman’s Wharf, our Driver can reason that hidden passengers may be getting off, and that they may soon cross the street."
"We’re also building greater flexibility into our driving software to handle unexpected changes to the road. If we’re driving on 19th Avenue during road work and our sensors spot traffic cones and road work signs, our perception system understands that they are guiding us out of the usual lane, and our planning and routing systems can automatically update the vehicle’s route to navigate the new layout."
Waypoint - The official Waymo blog: Expanding our testing in San Francisco
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
This is total Waymo FUD. Waymo handles those situations just fine. Whole Mars Catalog is a known Elon fanboy who lies about Waymo all the time. And he constantly spreads Tesla propaganda. He does not report all the problems that FSD Beta has. He acts like FSD Beta is almost L5 (when it is not).
mikes_fsd
Banned
The video suggests otherwise... but don't let that get in your way... preach on!
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