Autonomous Car Progress

[diplomat33]

"Toyota Motor Group Subsidiary Woven Planet has announced the completed acquisition of Level 5, the self-driving division of rideshare veteran Lyft, Inc. The completed transaction is one of several made by Toyota and its subsidiaries in 2021, specifically pertaining to autonomous software and other self-driving technologies."

Toyota's Woven Planet acquires Lyft's Level 5 self-driving division

Toyota subsidiary Woven Planet, has announced the completed acquisition of Level 5, the self-driving division of rideshare veterans Lyft Inc.

electrek.co

 

[stopcrazypp]

Why are we shortening "MobileEye" to "MB"? I would have thought "ME" would be the abbreviation. Or am I missing something totally obvious?

I also vote against abbreviation of MobileEye to MB, not only because it doesn't follow typical abbreviation logic (which as you point out would be ME) it's also the same abbreviation as Mercedes Benz.

Edit: just some context, given Mercedes is planning to release their L3 system soon, I can see real confusion from this. I wouldn't mind if this wasn't the case (for example if Mercedes wasn't working on semi-autonomous vehicles at all).

 

[diplomat33]

I also vote against abbreviation of MobileEye to MB, not only because it doesn't follow typical abbreviation logic (which as you point out would be ME) it's also the same abbreviation as Mercedes Benz.

Yeah, I admit MB does not really make sense for an abbreviation for Mobileye. Not sure why my brain went there. I guess I was thinking of the M and the B in Mobileye. But ME makes more sense. MB fits better for Mercedes-Benz.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yeah, I admit MB does not really make sense for an abbreviation for Mobileye. Not sure why my brain went there. I guess I was thinking of the M and the B in Mobileye. But ME makes more sense. MB fits better for Mercedes-Benz.

No problem. As I mentioned above in the edit, I normally wouldn't mind, but given Mercedes has recently announced they are going to release a L3 system soon, I only brought it up since I can see it resulting in a lot of unnecessary confusion in future discussions.

 

[FloridaJohn]

Now I'm glad I brought it up because I thought I was the only one who couldn't figure out what that meant!

 

[diplomat33]

It feels like the pace of deployment of self-driving cars is accelerating.

Ford, with Lyft and Argo AI, will deploy robotaxis for the public in Miami and Austin:

Ford will launch an autonomous vehicle fleet with Lyft and Argo AI by the end of the year, the companies announced Wednesday.

Self-driving rides with safety drivers will begin this year in Miami. The companies said they plan to expand to Austin, Texas, in 2022 and roll out about 1,000 self-driving cars in multiple markets within five years.

Read more here:

Ford and Argo AI to launch self-driving cars with Lyft by the end of the year

Self-driving rides with safety drivers will roll out this year in Miami by request and next year in Austin.

www.cnbc.com

Lyft Gets Equity Stake In Argo AI; Ford’s First Robotaxis Arrive In Late 2021

Ford and automated driving partner Argo AI will launch automated ride-hailing services on Lyft’s platform in Austin and Miami this year. Lyft will provide Argo with data to help optimize deployments and evaluate the safety of the vehicles in exchange for a 2.5% stake

www.forbes.com

 

[Doggydogworld]

It feels like the pace of deployment of self-driving cars is accelerating.

Ford, with Lyft and Argo AI, will deploy robotaxis for the public in Miami and Austin:



Read more here:

Ford and Argo AI to launch self-driving cars with Lyft by the end of the year

Self-driving rides with safety drivers will roll out this year in Miami by request and next year in Austin.

www.cnbc.com

Lyft Gets Equity Stake In Argo AI; Ford’s First Robotaxis Arrive In Late 2021

Ford and automated driving partner Argo AI will launch automated ride-hailing services on Lyft’s platform in Austin and Miami this year. Lyft will provide Argo with data to help optimize deployments and evaluate the safety of the vehicles in exchange for a 2.5% stake

www.forbes.com

The real action is in China. Government is very supportive, at least of the chosen few. Liability not the kind of problem it is in the US (except for Tesla, ha).

I also read MB as Mercedes Benz every time. I'd just say Intel instead of Mobileye. They'll replace the branding over time, might as well get ahead of the curve. We all know it's Shashua's group in Israel doing the work.

 

[diplomat33]

The real action is in China. Government is very supportive, at least of the chosen few. Liability not the kind of problem it is in the US (except for Tesla, ha).

True, China is seeing a lot of growth with robotaxis. I think AutoX and WeRide have driverless rides in China.

 

[diplomat33]

I know we talk a lot about can Waymo scale, can the robotaxi model scale. Here is an interesting article about how Argo/Ford/Lyft plan to scale their robotaxi service:

How Argo, Ford, and Lyft Will Scale Driverless Ride-Hailing in Miami, Austin and Beyond

Ground Truth, published by Argo AI, presents the latest thinking and best practices guiding the development of self-driving vehicles.

groundtruthautonomy.com

Basically, the article argues that they can scale because they will combine expertise from 3 companies that together can handle the three critical requirements for scaling: Ford will handle producing enough robotaxis to meet demand, Argo has the FSD tech, and Lyft will help with the ride-hailing logistics part. We will see if they can be successful. It is easier said than done. Just ask Waymo.

 

[hgmichna]

These terse abbreviations like MB or ME are unintelligible for others who have not followed the whole discussion. For this reason I do not use them. I simply write out the names. Why don't you all do the same? The time savings from using the abbreviation is negligible, because the rest of the text is still just as long.

An acceptable method is also to give the full name the first time it is mentioned in a posting, along with the abbreviation. Then you use the abbreviation in the rest of the message.

 

[KArnold]

My very limited with real self-driving cars is very limited - like the kind that would ferry you from the parking lot to the venue entrance at a whopping 15 MPH max. I assume these big $ startups we're seeing here are not in that category - i.e., if one were available, it would use the freeway to get me to the airport. Yes?

And I also assume that (except for Tesla, someday), these are all geographically bound due to the need/lack of HD maps? In other words, if my metro area were included (it's not), I might be able to use one to go downtown but not necessarily to the fringe of a suburb?

Finally, for those with experience, are they charging fees similar to a taxi/UBER for one of these rides today? Curious if they consider this to be a premium option - i.e., $50 if you want driverless, or $30 if you do not. Almost sounds backwards.

Thanks in advance.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My very limited with real self-driving cars is very limited - like the kind that would ferry you from the parking lot to the venue entrance at a whopping 15 MPH max. I assume these big $ startups we're seeing here are not in that category - i.e., if one were available, it would use the freeway to get me to the airport. Yes?

And I also assume that (except for Tesla, someday), these are all geographically bound due to the need/lack of HD maps? In other words, if my metro area were included (it's not), I might be able to use one to go downtown but not necessarily to the fringe of a suburb?

Finally, for those with experience, are they charging fees similar to a taxi/UBER for one of these rides today? Curious if they consider this to be a premium option - i.e., $50 if you want driverless, or $30 if you do not. Almost sounds backwards.

Thanks in advance.

The ones used by the robotaxi startups currently definitely are much faster than 15 mph, but I believe they don't typically drive on the freeway, just mainly testing on local roads right now. Cruise have tested in San Francisco for a while, and I don't recalling seeing them on the freeway (see them all the time on local roads). Same with Waymo.

Waymo is charging prices slightly below Uber:
Without Fanfare, Waymo Opens Robotaxi Ride Service To The Public

When they started showing sample prices (but didn't charge for it) it was similar to Uber/Lyft also.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

But at this stage the prices are likely just experimental to get a feel of how the public reacts and not really reflecting the true break even cost (just like Uber/Lyft doesn't in many places, and still have not made a profit after all these years).

 

[idriveacar]

The real action is in China. Government is very supportive, at least of the chosen few. Liability not the kind of problem it is in the US (except for Tesla, ha).

The Chinese government being involved with self driving car companies (like it likes to do with every industry) is unsettling to me. Imagine what Tesla would be capable of if it had CCP levels of "make people and ideas disappear" influence. And by "capable" I mean human rights violations, not technological advancement.

 

[daniel]

My very limited with real self-driving cars is very limited - like the kind that would ferry you from the parking lot to the venue entrance at a whopping 15 MPH max. I assume these big $ startups we're seeing here are not in that category - i.e., if one were available, it would use the freeway to get me to the airport. Yes?

And I also assume that (except for Tesla, someday), these are all geographically bound due to the need/lack of HD maps? In other words, if my metro area were included (it's not), I might be able to use one to go downtown but not necessarily to the fringe of a suburb?

Finally, for those with experience, are they charging fees similar to a taxi/UBER for one of these rides today? Curious if they consider this to be a premium option - i.e., $50 if you want driverless, or $30 if you do not. Almost sounds backwards.

Thanks in advance.

Robotaxis today are not there to make money. They're development platforms for FSD. The first company to develop reliable, wide-area L5 FSD will make billions, maybe hundreds of billions, selling/licensing the technology or selling cars directly to the public, in the case of a carmaker like Tesla or Ford. That's their hope. With the cost of the cars today, to get real-world riders they have to operate at a huge loss. They're betting that the risk is worth the potential rewards.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Robotaxis today are not there to make money. They're development platforms for FSD. The first company to develop reliable, wide-area L5 FSD will make billions, maybe hundreds of billions, selling/licensing the technology or selling cars directly to the public, in the case of a carmaker like Tesla or Ford. That's their hope. With the cost of the cars today, to get real-world riders they have to operate at a huge loss. They're betting that the risk is worth the potential rewards.

I wouldn't say that's necessarily the goal of robotaxi developers. They are likely going to be content with L4 and steady roll out region by region. High hardware costs, and integration into the vehicle were not a really big concern for them given they intend to operate these cars as fleets. The idea is that as it gets reliable enough, it can virtually eliminate labor costs, which is a big component making the Uber/Lyft model not work out. I don't think any of them really are targeting general release to general passenger vehicles (in fact, a lot of them are working toward cars without any driver controls), nor would it really affect their strategy much if L5 never happens.

 

[Bladerskb]

GM is bringing its upgraded hands-free Super Cruise driving system to 6 vehicles in 2022 | TechCrunch

GM is rolling out three major upgrades including automatic lanes changes and towing support to its hands-free driver assistance system Super Cruise and

techcrunch.com

New Supercruise will change lanes by itself without driver initiation. GM catching up in adas. Reminder that supwrcruise 2.0 uses EyeQ4

 

[diplomat33]

New Supercruise will change lanes by itself without driver initiation. GM catching up in adas. Reminder that supwrcruise 2.0 uses EyeQ4

GM is also planning on bringing Super Cruise to city streets:

It is also working on making Super Cruise available on city streets, not just on highways.

“So Cruise is really focused on that full autonomy, but on Super Cruise we continue to add more and more features,” Barra said. “Our ultimate vision is that this (Super Cruise) system enables hands-free transportation in 95% of driving scenarios.”

And it looks like GM hopes to leverage the fully autonomous tech of Cruise into personal cars as well:

Ultimately, though Barra wants to take Cruise’s self-driving technology, designed over robotaxis and last-mile delivery, and get it into personal autonomous vehicles. “I believe we’ll have personal autonomous vehicles and then that will leverage the capability we have at Cruise with the capability that we have at the car company to really be well positioned to delight the customers from that perspective,” Barra said.

GM CEO Mary Barra wants to sell personal autonomous vehicles using Cruise's self-driving tech by 2030 | TechCrunch

GM CEO Mary Barra sees the automaker selling personal autonomous vehicles by the end of the decade by leveraging technology from its self-driving

techcrunch.com

 

[daniel]

"... by the end of the decade. ..."
-- Mary Barra

"Jam yesterday and jam tomorrow. Never jam today."
-- The White Queen in Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll.

 

[cwerdna]

I also read MB as Mercedes Benz every time. I'd just say Intel instead of Mobileye.

Ditto.

Anyway, here are some articles on what was already posted about Mobileye.

Intel's Mobileye takes its autonomous vehicle testing program to New York City | TechCrunch

Mobileye, a subsidiary of Intel, has expanded its autonomous vehicle testing program to New York City as part of its strategy to develop and deploy the

techcrunch.com

Intel’s Mobileye begins testing autonomous vehicles in New York City

Mobileye says its the only one with an AV testing permit.

www.theverge.com

 

[diplomat33]

Brand new video of a real world test of Mercedes' L3 highway system on the EQS:

Up to 60 kph
Driver can disengage
10 second max warning to take over