Also has Ireland thrown in for some reason. I think they just needed to fill some space in the PowerPoint and just threw in all the countries that had even a bit of involvement.
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Autonomous Car Progress
- Thread starter stopcrazypp
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- Autonomous Vehicles
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Lot of companies have Ireland dev centers. Pretty common.
English speaking, in EU and reasonable cost of living.
ps : They probably meant to say "developed by teams in US, Israel, Ireland ...."
Bingo. UltraCruise's 5nm compute is based on SnapDragon Drive
Cruise has offices in Isreal as well if I recall correctly.Developed by Israel...what does that even mean? o_o
Fair enough. Though that is not a general sentiment.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I'm in the minority that thinks that FSD Beta is a beta of FSD (i.e. L5) so it belongs in this thread.
Whereas Ultra Cruise sounds like it's clearly intended to be L2. Roundabout capability is a perfect example. FSD Beta does not "assist" drivers in navigating roundabouts, that's not its intent. The intent is that once it is no longer in beta it will be able to handle roundabouts without a driver at all. Only someone interested in helping debug the system or entertainment would used FSD Beta in roundabouts.
Once it's out of beta (meaning the current limited access EAP program, not the marketing "beta" label that has no limits on which owner can use it) it will be no different in that the driver still needs to monitor the system and be ready to take over at any moment (thus being squarely L2). Being L2 doesn't mean the system has to be an "assist" in the sense that the driver is physically handling the controls while the system gives a "nudge" (some lane assist systems are like this). In fact, systems like Ultra Cruise that have camera based driver monitoring don't even need the driver's hands on the steering wheel. Tesla's system being able to handle a roundabout doesn't change it from being L2.I'm in the minority that thinks that FSD Beta is a beta of FSD (i.e. L5) so it belongs in this thread.
Whereas Ultra Cruise sounds like it's clearly intended to be L2. Roundabout capability is a perfect example. FSD Beta does not "assist" drivers in navigating roundabouts, that's not its intent. The intent is that once it is no longer in beta it will be able to handle roundabouts without a driver at all. Only someone interested in helping debug the system or entertainment would used FSD Beta in roundabouts.
As for whether there is any use for end-to-end L2, at least three industry players (and counting) disagree with you on that.
To make it clear, I've been repeating this, but Elon thinks once end-to-end L2 is out, it'll be a quick move to L4/L5 just by updating the software, but from past history IMO it's not going to be that easy. This doesn't change whether it'll remain L2 when it's out of beta though. Given what Tesla is saying to DMV, and the FSD Beta expansion warning message to the public being consistent that the feature is L2 (not autonomous), the chances they wait for L4/L5 to end limited access as you suggest is very low.
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Tam
Well-Known Member
I am open to technology that helps progress even when that technology would be still in L2.
For example, some are tired of Autopilot phantom brake but it's refreshing to get a tweet that pure vision will save the day.
It's still L2 autopilot technology but if L2 can solve phantom brakes then it's progress for L3 and above.
Same with collisions. If L2 can avoid colliding with stationary police cars and firetrucks then that's progress for L3 and above too!
So it's worth it to cover how L2 Autopilot will progress from radar to pure vision in order to solve some issues or not.
That's what I like about the clear disclosure. GM tells what the system won't do in the press with a clear poster with the "Level 2...ADAS" written out while Tesla explained publicly what its system will do by summoning across the country with no drivers in it!
GM's poster says "The goal is to cover every public paved road in U.S. & Canada". It's a handsfree system (unlike the Tesla torque sensor system) and although it can't do roundabout now its goal says "every public paved road" which will cover roundabouts too.
95% scenarios are a bold claim because Tesla still has issues with the scenario of "curves of death", stationary fire trucks, parking, smart summon...
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I guess this is right. I got confused initially though and thought you might have misstated it. It helps me when thinking about it to add the extra level explicitly. I think there might be:
Beta of FSD Beta (what everyone is trying to get access to this Saturday).
FSD Beta (what most people bought).
FSD (what some early buyers bought).
I may not have it quite straight though. This stuff is very confusing.
But yes, it seems like FSD Beta is a beta of FSD.
And the beta of FSD Beta is a beta of FSD Beta as one would expect.
Nope. Nobody bought "FSD Beta". Everyone bought FSD, but what they were promised were different depending on when they bought it. This is no different from AP, where the features are different depending on when you bought it.
As for what "FSD Beta" means, my take was given a month ago and we had that discussion already:
Autonomous Car Progress
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’m talking about whether or not the feature enabled in the car will have the “Beta feature” terminology attached to it, when/if it goes to wide release (I think we know it will). Obviously people were sold something called FSD (without the Beta) but that terminology is not what I was referring to.
When I say “what most people bought” I don’t mean the name of the product they bought.
Anyway seems like FSD is a legitimate topic in this thread. This discussion of the nomenclature, less so.
Lol a tesla fan calling something else vapor.
Most Tesla fans like you make no sense at all.
- First when Supercruise was released its, Supercruise only works 100k miles on highway lol Tesla AP works on city streets everywhere, Tesla is 5-10 years ahead.
- Then also, Waymo and Cruise is geofenced to a city, Tesla AP works virtually everywhere, therefore Tesla is 5-10 years ahead lol.
- Then also, Lidar and HD maps lmao, local maximum, doomed. hahaha Tesla is 5-10 years ahead
- Then when Supercruise got 200k miles and auto lane change and navigate on supercruise, then it was lol still geofenced, Tesla is 5-10 years ahead, look at FSD Beta.
- Then Ultracruise is announced with Lidar, No HD Maps, City streets, traffic control response and left and right turns and automated parking on millions of miles of road.
- Then its lol it doesn't handle roundabout and only ~3 million miles? what a joke, NEXT!!!
But wait, wasn't Tesla supposed to be 5-10 years ahead because their system isn't geofenced to a city?
Wouldn't that make Ultra cruise 5-10 years ahead of GM's own cruise, waymo, etc?
Also I thought Lidar was doomed, ugly and lead to a local maximum? how is Ultra cruise working practically everywhere with a lidar behind the windshield?
Also wait Ultra cruise doesn't use HD map won't that make it 5-10 years ahead of waymo and cruise as waymo doesn't work outside of phoenix?
Clearly most Tesla fans just don't use any logic or reason and their statements are just an exercise of fandom.
Its hilarious because by the time Tesla is able to offer AP city streets to 25% of purchased customers, it will be 2022 and by the time everyone who purchased FSD in 2016, etc even get AP city streets it will be mid 2022 to late 2022.
Are you telling me a dinosaur, a laggard, that is 5-10 years behind is about to release a system that will outperform what the fanboys have been screaming from the rooftop just mere months later?
Scenario #1
June 2022 every one who paid for FSD gets L2 door to door
June 2023 GM releases/delivers at launch L2 door to door who everyone who pays for it.
lol Thats literally one year afterwards
Scenario #2 (Most likely)
Nov 2022 every one who paid for FSD gets L2 door to door
June 2023 GM releases/delivers at launch L2 door to door who everyone who pays for it.
Lmfao that's 7 months later
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
What percentage of FSD purchasers will say "FSD Beta makes navigating roundabouts easier and more relaxing!"? That's what I mean about it not being an assist.
Obviously I could be wrong and it could really help people that have trouble with roundabouts, we're both only going by what we see in videos.
Someone needs to ask Elon if FSD Beta is a beta of FSD so we can settle this! Maybe he'll address it at the shareholder meeting.
Note please that AP and EAP are still beta, all these years later. They are very mature L2 systems that, in my experience work extremely well. Phantom braking is one is many reasons they are L2. I predict that when "FSD Beta" is released widely (i.e. to everybody who paid for "FSD") it will still be beta and L2 for many years to come. Really, "FSD" will basically just be EAP NoA for the city. Or at some people are calling it, Door-to-Door L2. And it will still be beta.
But I do think it belongs in this thread because I see "Autonomous Car Progress" as meaning progress towards an autonomous car, and certainly the intent is to progress to autonomy.
But I do think it belongs in this thread because I see "Autonomous Car Progress" as meaning progress towards an autonomous car, and certainly the intent is to progress to autonomy.
Elon: 2 weeks
GM: 2 years (!)
I thought you stated not long ago that Tesla's FSD doesn't belong here because it's not autonomous.
GM: 2 years (!)
I thought you stated not long ago that Tesla's FSD doesn't belong here because it's not autonomous.
I'm in the minority that thinks that FSD Beta is a beta of FSD (i.e. L5) so it belongs in this thread.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to GM Ultra handling all the situations that we see FSD Beta being put through on youtube
ps : Since you work for a Tesla competitor / supplier to competitors, shouldn't you state that in your signature to be transparent ? When I worked in Microsoft, I never disclosed that in my signature - but I never trashed competitors on various social media either.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Definitely not me. AFAIK FSD when (if?) out of beta will be far more autonomous than any other system currently in development. Everyone else is planning on using remote assistance.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yes, I admitted that I broke my own "rule" and offered to start a separate thread if people thought it would be better.
Simulation City is truly mind blowing.
No game engines here. 100% ML.
Waymo should come out and say that anyone messing with game engines is DOOMED! (lol tesla).
Waymo playing chess, tesla fiddling with checkers.
No game engines here. 100% ML.
Waymo should come out and say that anyone messing with game engines is DOOMED! (lol tesla).
Waymo playing chess, tesla fiddling with checkers.
The wrong attitude to have considering a lot of these works are shared across the industry.
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