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Cruise in 7 cities.
Highlighting what a farce Tesla PTSD is
“But, but, but Tesla is working on a generalised solution & will get there…………..one day”
A quadrillion times zero is……..zero
For Tesla 0 down, only 27,481 left to go (19,495 incorporated cities, towns, and villages in the United States and over 7,986 cities and towns in Canada).7 down, only 27,474 left to go (19,495 incorporated cities, towns, and villages in the United States and over 7,986 cities and towns in Canada).
For Tesla 0 down, only 27,481 left to go (19,495 incorporated cities, towns, and villages in the United States and over 7,986 cities and towns in Canada).
Cruise in 7 cities.
Highlighting what a farce Tesla PTSD is
“But, but, but Tesla is working on a generalised solution & will get there…………..one day”
A quadrillion times zero is……..zero
What does that even mean? All progress toward automation and autonomy is useful. You might not experience it in your lifetime (highly unlikely) but it is progress for future generations. Just because you have not personally experienced it doesn't mean it is not useful. It is not a hypothetical robotaxi, it is an actual service being used today in various locations.For driverless autonomy, sure. But for useful automation? Nope. I'll take something that improves my life now over a hypothetical robotaxi that may not include my area in their geofence until 2030.
Just because you have not personally experienced it doesn't mean it is not useful.
For driverless autonomy, sure. But for useful automation? Nope. I'll take something that improves my life now over a hypothetical robotaxi that may not include my area in their geofence until 2030.
What part of "All progress toward automation and autonomy is useful", makes you think I don't believe FSD is useful? I've always been a fan of all automation systems from regular old Cruise control to Lane centering control that prevent people from driving off the road, Traffic aware CC to ADAS systems like Supercruise, FSD, Bluecruise, Pro Pilot etc.Believe it or not, the same goes for FSD Beta.
Yeah, by same standard (just having testing) Waymo has over 10 (San Francisco, Daly City, Mountain View, Sunnyvale, Los Altos, Palo Alto, Chandler, Phoenix, LA, New York, Seattle, Novi; probably more, these are just the ones media reported from a quick search).To be fair, Cruise only has a meaningful presence in 2-3 cities (SF, Phoenix and maybe Austin), the other cities are new testing or newly announced and don't have a public ride-hailing service yet. Cruise's scaling strategy seems to be to deploy small in a bunch of cities first and then build up the ride-hailing service later. Cruise has some big issues like frequent unexpected stops and they need to expand their ODD to highways. We will see how well they are able to scale.
Cruise and Waymo decided to do driverless first and then scale while Tesla decided to scale first and then try to get to driverless. We will see who gets to driverless "everywhere" first. I like that Waymo and Cruise have actual driverless that is starting to scale. Frankly, "V12 end-to-end" feels like Elon's latest Hail Mary attempt, another moonshot that he hopes will "solve FSD". If it works and Tesla is able to go driverless everywhere, they will obviously win. But the chances of it working like that, especially in the short term, are vanishingly small IMO.
I think it is more likely that Tesla will not achieve driverless but will eventually achieve passable self-driving everywhere that still requires driver supervision. And that might be ok. I've said before that perhaps Tesla does not need to do driverless, that just doing self-driving everywhere with driver supervision would be good enough. If Tesla gets to say 1,000 miles per intervention, that might be good enough for most Tesla owners. Meanwhile, Cruise and Waymo will press on, scaling driverless to more and more places. In any case, I am very excited for the future of autonomous driving.
A quadrillion times zero is….zero7 down, only 27,474 left to go (19,495 incorporated cities, towns, and villages in the United States and over 7,986 cities and towns in Canada).
Tesla is aiming for scale door-to-door L2 first and then transitioning from that to higher levels (although it may be a dead end approach). To the lay person completely unaware of nor cares about SAE levels, it looks sufficiently close in functionality (car does all the same actions as a L4 car with safety driver; with lines further blurred if hands free attention detection is rolled out in larger scale). There's plenty of people in less popular cities where the current L4 efforts seem like pie in the sky, given due to the commercial approach, it may not reach them until 10-20 years later, if ever.
While there is some lip service paid by those companies to releasing a general consumer version in the future, it's pretty clear they have their hands pretty full just with the robotaxi operation and the companies don't want to devote resources that might distract from that (as evidence by the ending of the trucking division at Waymo for example, even though it would seem to have a lot of commercial potential).
At Waymo, we’re developing a generalizable, fully autonomous Driver – the Waymo Driver – designed to integrate with a variety of vehicle platforms and commercial applications including ride-hailing, trucking, local delivery, and personal car ownership.
We are rapidly improving the Driver, shaping and overcoming hurdles in the regulatory landscape, and testing use cases that will provide valuable insights for partners in the long run.
A quadrillion times zero is….zero
New Model 3 owner here and this is where I'm stuck. Elon continues to say $15k FSD is a bargain in context to the robotaxi business case, but I never see myself ever doing that. Especially considering my car has HW3 and probably will never get there.having L2 door to door, can also offer great value
New Model 3 owner here and this is where I'm stuck. Elon continues to say $15k FSD is a bargain in context to the robotaxi business case, but I never see myself ever doing that. Especially considering my car has HW3 and probably will never get there. I guess I'll be relegated to subscription-land for the life of this vehicle.
For me to get L2 door to door means what, that I pony up the $6k for EAP?
New Model 3 owner here and this is where I'm stuck. Elon continues to say $15k FSD is a bargain in context to the robotaxi business case, but I never see myself ever doing that. Especially considering my car has HW3 and probably will never get there.
For me to get L2 door to door means what, that I pony up the $6k for EAP, at least for highway driving? And that assumes the FSD code base makes its way back into that product. I guess I'll be relegated to subscription-land for the life of this vehicle.
The stuff about the cars increasing in value when they become robotaxis is BS from Elon to justify the $15k price tag. HW3 will not do robotaxis. "FSD" will only be L2 door to door. So the $15k only pays for L2 door to door.
@Knightshade EAP only does useful stuff on divided highways and parking lots.