Autopilot consistency and accuracy...

[Siciliano]

I'm a fairly new owner, so I've started to really test out the autopilot the past week or so. I don't have FSD, just AP.

At first I was terrified during sharp bends in the road, but it handles it so damn well...no jerky steering or anything, so far. I'm impressed, and I'm wondering of course about the million dollar question - how consistent is this accuracy? I haven't seen a single hiccup.

Interestingly I've also learned a few things. I always thought the right button/wheel was the only one you could use to let AP know you're still paying attention, but the left scroll wheel (for volume) up or down works as well.

Also, out of curiosity I tested the length of time before you are forced to take intervention, usually around 1 min. The funny thing is, if you let the timer run out 2 times in a row, the car punishes you and a message flashes on the display, "Autosteer not available for the rest of this drive". lol I couldn't use it again until I put the car in park and then drive again.

So how confident are you guys in the autopilot?? Confident enough to take your eyes off the road? I haven't really done that (much) yet, but I have used it while eating a sandwich. It's pretty amazing, basically the future, now. FSD will be interesting when it's fully fleshed out...

 

[sduck]

I've been using it for over 2 years now, and am really confident in its ability to deal with most situations. One thing I've learned though is - actually keeping your hand on the wheel to be able to take over immediately is vital. It's not just a catchy phrase you agree to once and then ignore, your life actually depends on it. The things that cause accidents aren't things that happen with plenty of time to get ready for, or things that autopilot catches every time. You should actually keep a hand on the wheel. The good thing about this is - with a bit of practice keeping just enough weight/torque on the wheel while doing this eliminates nags, and quickly becomes second nature, requiring little or no effort.

 

[chrstna4]

I've had my Model 3 for about 6 weeks and I'm slowly learning to trust AP more. I play with it on day trips when there are few cars on the road so if there is phantom braking (and there has been) or AP does something I need to take over from (so far only when the lane lines do something weird), I'm not impacting other drivers or creating a situation that might cause an accident.

I've found a few situations when I regularly turn it off. My car seems to phantom brake whenever I get close to a trestle bridge so I drop off AP when those are coming up. I also drop off AP when I'm driving past semis because the car stays exactly in the center of the lane and I am more comfortable when I'm hugging the left side of of the lane (usually in the far left lane so there's room). AP isn't doing anything wrong but my nerves get rattled. Ha!

I do use it regularly when I'm in stop and go traffic on a highway. It's so nice to have the car take care of that because it can be tiring.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm a fairly new owner, so I've started to really test out the autopilot the past week or so. I don't have FSD, just AP.

At first I was terrified during sharp bends in the road, but it handles it so damn well...no jerky steering or anything, so far. I'm impressed, and I'm wondering of course about the million dollar question - how consistent is this accuracy? I haven't seen a single hiccup.

Interestingly I've also learned a few things. I always thought the right button/wheel was the only one you could use to let AP know you're still paying attention, but the left scroll wheel (for volume) up or down works as well.

Also, out of curiosity I tested the length of time before you are forced to take intervention, usually around 1 min. The funny thing is, if you let the timer run out 2 times in a row, the car punishes you and a message flashes on the display, "Autosteer not available for the rest of this drive". lol I couldn't use it again until I put the car in park and then drive again.

So how confident are you guys in the autopilot?? Confident enough to take your eyes off the road? I haven't really done that (much) yet, but I have used it while eating a sandwich. It's pretty amazing, basically the future, now. FSD will be interesting when it's fully fleshed out...

You should never take your eyes off the road with autopilot, either with regular autopilot Or FSD.

The problem with these systems ( and I have FSD on my model 3) is that they work VERY VERY well, but are not "perfect". They work so well, they tend to lull people into a false sense of security where they start doing things like 'taking their eyes off the road" or bending over to pick up the cellphone they dropped while traveling at freeway speeds, or pretending to sleep, or saying "now I can drive even though I suffer from a condition where I have microsleeps".

(have read all of these on here at one time or another).

Since it works well, but its not "perfect" some people eventually tend to relax too much when using it.

When it needs you to take over, it usually needs it "now" not 1.5 seconds from now, even if it doesnt need a person to take over all that often. Its a great aid to reduce stress on long trips, provided one stays focused on the fact that YOU are still driving the car, and it is not driving itself... even if its steering and stuff.

 

[XLR82XS]

I'm very confident and it greatly helps on the long highway trips I take quite frequently. It's very consistent for me and keeping 1 hand resting on the wheel works well and completely rids the warning from popping up. There's always the cheater "weight" .... but annoying to have something on the wheel - unless of course it's small and has quick-release.

Also, as stated above, it's awesome for stop-and-go traffic.

 

[Phlier]

So how confident are you guys in the autopilot?? Confident enough to take your eyes off the road?

No. Never. Never ever.

I allow it to assist me in moving the wheel, but my hand is always there following every little movement, without exception. I "drive" the car more when FSD is active than when I'm driving it manually.

Gaining confidence in the system is, IMO, a very, very, VERY bad thing. Don't ever get confident in the system. Expect it to always want to kill you. Always.

Because in that one split second when you get confident and "trust" the system is when it will kill you.

Use FSD and enjoy it. But NEVER trust it.

 

[Phlier]

When it needs you to take over, it usually needs it "now" not 1.5 seconds from now

Sorry for the double post, but I fired off my response before I read the thread.

I can't emphasize the quoted text enough. The vast majority of the times I've needed to take over, it needed it right freaking N O W. Not one half second from now. There have been many times when not having my hand on the wheel would have made the difference between an accident or not.

I try to be really easy going and relaxed, both in real life and on the forums. But this is one area where I'm not easy going at all. I get fangs. So I apologize for that. But this is literally a life or death subject.

Drive. Your. Car. Always.

And I'm gonna leave it at that before I blow a gasket from high blood pressure.

 

[DutCH_CourAge]

Yesterday all in an instant EAP stopped working because the low sun was blinding the front camera. You really have to grip the steering wheel right away, so it is very important to keep at least one hand on the steering wheel right away.

 

[The_Observer]

I have been using autopilot for a good 7 months now since picking up my car 8 months ago, and basic Autopilot works almost all the time, besides things such as phantom breaking, which isn't a big deal to me.

I am not sure if things like AEB or following distance may contribute to more phantom breaking, that's something I may look into.

Autopilot did really help with my stress driving in LA traffic, so it's really a good stress reduction tool. Just continue to pay attention on the road and don't use it completely hands free, it would do fine by your needs.

 

[RayK]

As far as confidence is concerned, from what I've read here, a couple of members have driven Highway 17 between San Jose and Santa Cruz on AP. I posted a link to a YouTube video (i.e., it's not mine) a couple of years ago so you can see the route: Tesla Model 3 Renter's Review - Jan 2018

My usual drive to Santa Cruz starts from about 2:00 into the video; from the Highway 85 and 17 interchange, south on 17. The road goes from the valley floor (~200' elevation) up to the summit in the Santa Cruz Mountains (1800', @4:18 in the video) in about 10 miles. Then downhill into Santa Cruz for a distance of another 15 miles. 17 is a four lane (two in each direction) state highway with twists and turns and a 50MPH limit through the mountainous section (which nobody who regularly drives this road does). I've yet to allow my EAP/FSD car to drive this section of highway its own. I disengage AP at The Cats, just before the climb begins and the freeway turns into a highway (@2:52 in the video).

I trust the system to drive the car on regular interstate and freeway sections (read: smooth, gentle curves), as well as well-marked city streets and expressways but always keep my hands on or very near the steering wheel. My eyes are mostly looking forward but I've noticed I'm looking more in my rear view mirrors when EAP is active. And yes, sometimes I'm looking at my phone or the screen but for only a couple of seconds at a time .

 

[Siciliano]

Very interesting replies on this one. I tend to agree with those of you that don't trust it fully. I don't think I ever will trust it on that level.

The most frightening thing, by far, is what since of you mentioned about the car needing you to intervene right NOW. If you can't even get a 1 second warning, that's a recipe for disaster. I guess it's one of those things that is GREAT when it works, until it doesn't...

 

[MobileClimate]

After 15,000 miles you know when and when not to use AP .i know when im in the fast lane i dont need hands on the steering wheel ...i have had a deer ran out in front of me and a wheel come at me from the other side of freeway ..AP hasn't failed me yet

 

[chrstna4]

My eyes are mostly looking forward but I've noticed I'm looking more in my rear view mirrors when EAP is active. .

If someone is close behind me, I turn off EAP. Even if it’s not phantom braking, sometimes EAP hits the brakes harder than I would normally and I don’t want to take a chance of getting rear ended. In that circumstance, I’d also create more space in front of me than EAP (I know I could adjust following distance but it seems easier to just be in full control of the car).

Also, there are times (mostly driving at night) when EAP goes around corners in short straight lines and it feels too jerky for me to tolerate.

 

[Siciliano]

If someone is close behind me, I turn off EAP. Even if it’s not phantom braking, sometimes EAP hits the brakes harder than I would normally and I don’t want to take a chance of getting rear ended. In that circumstance, I’d also create more space in front of me than EAP (I know I could adjust following distance but it seems easier to just be in full control of the car).

Also, there are times (mostly driving at night) when EAP goes around corners in short straight lines and it feels too jerky for me to tolerate.

That's they one thing I've noticed that I think needs a lot of work...the car brakes entirely too hard. I even set the follow distance to 6+ cars to try to give it more time and mitigate it, but it still happens.

I'm pretty surprised, you would think it's a pretty straightforward algorithm to get the car to use regen very accurately ahead of time, and only use the brakes when absolutely necessary...

 

[Fernand]

It's great to see people are getting smart about this. Of course neither humans nor robotics drive perfectly. Neither can be trusted 100%. About 100 people die in car crashes in the US every day. I've been using EAP (then "FSD") since December 2018 and it's a huge help. Absolutely brilliant. "FSD" is an objective, a work in progress, and it will never be a finished catalog line item. There will always be changes, redesigns and refinements.

Nicki and I drive together better than either of us alone. The net reduction in effort and stress is huge for me.

But it's an entirely different brain to road link. You have to gradually learn what settings you prefer, when it makes most sense to disengage-reengage it, and you have to treat it as a buddy assist, not as a "you replacement". It's certainly not a contest. Regularly trimming the target speed with the scroll wheel is a healthy interaction. Staying alert and watching goes without saying, as the evidence proves that the world IS out to kill us. Comfortably keeping a hand on the wheel must become second nature. Yes, some people have found that a small (e.g. 3 oz, 100g) detachable counterweight on the side where you rest your hand can help in providing the "nag" torque upon request more lightly, without jerking.
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[john5520]

In stop-and-go, I'm much more comfortable taking my eyes off the road. Otherwise, I'm paying attention like usual.

 

[Fernand]

@john5520 yeah, I agree; in stop-and go-traffic jams is where I'll usually just let Nicki figure things out. Sandwich unwrap and time to look for some good music. The system has been flawless in that context. And Nicki hollers loudly if there's something crazy happening. But it's also fun to watch. He used to be incredible at pushing his way in, say on 2 lane to one merges, but of late he's gotten shy. Every version has changes.
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[SlimJim]

I have counted to 10 with my eyes closed.

 

[Siciliano]

@john5520 yeah, I agree; in stop-and go-traffic jams is where I'll usually just let Nicki figure things out. Sandwich unwrap and time to look for some good music. The system has been flawless in that context. And Nicki hollers loudly if there's something crazy happening. But it's also fun to watch. He used to be incredible at pushing his way in, say on 2 lane to one merges, but of late he's gotten shy. Every version has changes.
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You'll be good as long as you don't change the car's name to Christine!

But seriously, reading things in this thread like the sun blinding the cameras is very unsettling...it's making me want to be VERY cautious.

I know Elon is strongly against LIDAR or any form of "sight" other than cameras. He may have to swallow his pride and implement other systems, because I'm not sure if cameras alone will suffice in the near future.

I think we will need true artificial intelligence (AGI), and many redundant systems before full FSD can be realized and fully trusted. We only have about 15-20 more years before the birth of true AI, but then we might have much bigger problems than worrying about FSD...

 

[Knightshade]

The inability of the cameras to handle bright sun and bad weather is why I don't believe L5 would ever be possible with the current sensor suite- simply too many times the car is blind in a given direction long enough to be problematic for L5... (hell right now it'll drop out of level 2 NoA if the rain or snow are heavy)

L4 with the operational domain being "no snow or heavy rain" might be possible though as glare-only issues appear to be very short-lived events compared to weather related ones.