Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[gizmoboy]

The "several months" term was on the order page. My VPA says "Tech package with Autopilot" as a line item. My car obviously does not have autopilot, so that would seem like an obvious legal angle for breach of contract.

Reasonable people on this very forum disagree with the obviousness of your assertion.

You also seem like a reasonable person. Pursue your legal recourse and see where it gets you.

You'll never know unless you try, and complaining about it here isn't going to get you any satisfaction.

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I know about programming: I've been in programming/software development since the 70's.

And you've never encountered software/hardware hybrid projects that go over-schedule by months or years?

 

[Majerus]

Reasonable people on this very forum disagree with the obviousness of your assertion.

You also seem like a reasonable person. Pursue your legal recourse and see where it gets you.

You'll never know unless you try, and complaining about it here isn't going to get you any satisfaction.

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And you've never encountered software/hardware hybrid projects that go over-schedule by months or years?

Does said software that has gone over scheduled get sold to customers ?

 

[anxman]

And you've never encountered software/hardware hybrid projects that go over-schedule by months or years?

Very much agree. A feature is late only until it's released whereas if it's released and it sucks, in this case it could be disastrous. Better late than too early.

 

[jay-bay]

beta to end of customers by August 15th and then to public 1-2 months after that? Than what the heck was with Elon's tweet about the "almost ready" to release auto steering and parallel park? Almost ready = 2.5 months?

 

[Sogorman]

I agree with the both of you but when the company keeps saying that it's going to be out in a few months and it turns into a year its frustrating especially when you are talking about a highly depreciating asset. Would have much rather waited to order the car until autopilot was about to ship..... for realz tho

 

[tezzla]

And you've never encountered software/hardware hybrid projects that go over-schedule by months or years?

I have NEVER had a project miss a deadline by over 3 months. That's complete incompetence (or probably more so: a meddling CEO who changes his mind every week)!

 

[jarym]

beta to end of customers by August 15th and then to public 1-2 months after that? Than what the heck was with Elon's tweet about the "almost ready" to release auto steering and parallel park? Almost ready = 2.5 months?

'Almost' is better than 'soon' in Tesla speak ;-)

 

[stopcrazypp]

Inside EVs says:

"Musk estimates maybe mid-Sept for the basic Autopilot rollout start to start-“wide release for the auto-pilot and auto-park features in one to two months after that”…depending on how next month’s beta test goes"
http://insideevs.com/tesla-q2-2015-earning-beat-estimates-model-s-delivery-expectations-knocked/

Another commenter also said on the conference call there was mention that Beta release is August 15.

 

[jarym]

I have NEVER had a project miss a deadline by over 3 months.

Reminds me of the days when my upper management decided no software project could ever take longer than 6 months so as to keep them within their own definition of the word 'small'. Anything longer than 6 months would have to be broken up into smaller chunks. I remember thinking that one or more of the suits must have gone on an 'agile methodology' seminar and focussed their resulting action plan only on the 'takeaway points'.

 

[KK2]

And you've never encountered software/hardware hybrid projects that go over-schedule by months or years?

1. In IT, NEVER EVER show a working prototype (like Tesla did in Oct 2014), the next thing the customer wants is "Hey put it into production". Look at what Apple does, they announce something, and they usually say "Available this fall" (and they don't miss the deadline), or "shipping today" - that makes customers happy.
2. Also, yes projects do get delayed, but not without consequences.
3. And sure if all software projects get delayed, is that an excuse really? So Tesla's diet plan is "Hey everyone else is fat too!?"

 

[wk057]

Reasonable people on this very forum disagree with the obviousness of your assertion.

You also seem like a reasonable person. Pursue your legal recourse and see where it gets you.

You'll never know unless you try, and complaining about it here isn't going to get you any satisfaction.

I disagree. There are plenty of reasonable people here who fully agree with my views on this topic. Many have posted here in this very thread, and many I've spoken to privately.

Suffice it to say that if this were to go the legal route I'm reasonably confident I would not be on the losing side. There is more than just the autopilot issue at hand in a case against Tesla on an early P85D purchase. We don't have 691 HP (proven by independent testing, a number removed from Tesla's site after people realized the fraud, and an issue made worse by Elon's blog post virtually admitting this with the release of the P90D"L"). We don't have 285 miles of range (website said 285 miles of range when ordering. At delivery window sticker said 243, car dash said 250-ish... that's not bait and switch?). We still don't have autopilot, a feature *demonstrated* before purchase and that is in the MVPA.

Sorry, but that's a hell of a lot of ammunition for a legal battle. Other manufacturers have lost cases over much more frivolous things, and I've seen other cases stand solidly on much much less in the past.

I'll point out that I'm not currently pursuing legal action of any kind against Tesla. I am, however, informally exploring options with them to remedy this situation to my satisfaction.

And you've never encountered software/hardware hybrid projects that go over-schedule by months or years?

I've been in software for 20-ish years. I've never had even a large software/hardware project go over timeline by anything close to "years" or even one year. Even so, I think the following post says it all:

Does said software that has gone over scheduled get sold to customers ?

My worst delayed project was about 4 months behind. The 4 months delay didn't cost customers, it cost my company. Why? Because my customers weren't tricked into paying for something that wasn't ready.

 

[Soolim]

Bummer.

One - I wonder if they now intend to release Model X w/o all the AutoPilot features.

Two - I'm somewhat surprised the accountants won't let them recognize the revenue associated with the unreleased autopilot features. They will be careful not to overpromise like this again and are now under significant pressure to get the stuff rolled out by 12/31.

MX release with AP. But since MX is not yet ready, they will not release AP for MS, because I speculate that MS needs additional H/W to properly function which they found out in MX. Hence my prediction in the AP release date poll /contest of Nov. 26, 2015.

 

[jeffro01]

MX release with AP. But since MX is not yet ready, they will not release AP for MS, because I speculate that MS needs additional H/W to properly function which they found out in MX. Hence my prediction in the AP release date poll /contest of Nov. 26, 2015.

Only Elon has said multiple times and very clearly that the hardware on the Model S is sufficient to support the level of autopilot announced. If this turns out to be false, then that's a completely different issue.

Jeff

 

[TonyOrr]

I'm annoyed and disappointed but I do not believe we have a lot of leverage to claim any compensation from Tesla. Tesla has never offered a specific timeline for Autopilot. While many of us have gotten our hopes up a bit, that's mainly our own fault.

I agree. I'm more frustrated that I've believed the hype/Elon. Based on Tesla's promotional material, demonstration, conversations with Tesla staff etc, I have been misled to believe a product I purchased in good faith was going to have some compelling features that would raise the bar in driver assistance technology. Even the store wall's were plastered with Autopilot ad's. When I picked up my car in December 2014, one of the staff had already been testing Autopilot, this in no way suggested it would be another year before we'd get it. Every conversation with Tesla since has suggested that it's just around the corner. My expectations were incorrectly set and I'm annoyed that I allowed myself to believe that Tesla could deliver anything on time. THAT's why I'm disappointed.

 

[jeffro01]

Suffice it to say that if this were to go the legal route I'm reasonably confident I would not be on the losing side. There is more than just the autopilot issue at hand in a case against Tesla on an early P85D purchase. We don't have 691 HP (proven by independent testing, a number removed from Tesla's site after people realized the fraud, and an issue made worse by Elon's blog post virtually admitting this with the release of the P90D"L"). We don't have 285 miles of range (website said 285 miles of range when ordering. At delivery window sticker said 243, car dash said 250-ish... that's not bait and switch?). We still don't have autopilot, a feature *demonstrated* before purchase and that is in the MVPA.

Sorry, but that's a hell of a lot of ammunition for a legal battle. Other manufacturers have lost cases over much more frivolous things, and I've seen other cases stand solidly on much much less in the past.

You are going to be sorely mistaken and I hope you have enough money for all the legal fees your going to have to pay Tesla in response. Please pursue legal action, if anything it'll force you to stop whining here all of the time about how you didn't get what you feel you're entitled to. I'm not going to pick out each of your issues and explain to you why you'll loose, badly, but just beware you're looking at fighting a battle you simply can't win. Tesla will likely settle out of court to keep it's costs down though, so hey there's that. Although I can promise you that you'll never be allowed to buy one again...

Jeff

 

[wk057]

I agree. I'm more frustrated that I've believed the hype/Elon. Based on Tesla's promotional material, demonstration, conversations with Tesla staff etc, I have been misled to believe a product I purchased in good faith was going to have some compelling features that would raise the bar in driver assistance technology. Even the store wall's were plastered with Autopilot ad's. When I picked up my car in December 2014, one of the staff had already been testing Autopilot, this in no way suggested it would be another year before we'd get it. Every conversation with Tesla since has suggested that it's just around the corner. My expectations were incorrectly set and I'm annoyed that I allowed myself to believe that Tesla could deliver anything on time. THAT's why I'm disappointed.

Fortunately for us there are many consumer protection laws that protect us from just this sort of misbehavior by companies. It's not your fault you were mislead by Tesla.

 

[Majerus]

You are going to be sorely mistaken and I hope you have enough money for all the legal fees your going to have to pay Tesla in response. Please pursue legal action, if anything it'll force you to stop whining here all of the time about how you didn't get what you feel you're entitled to. I'm not going to pick out each of your issues and explain to you why you'll loose, badly, but just beware you're looking at fighting a battle you simply can't win. Tesla will likely settle out of court to keep it's costs down though, so hey there's that. Although I can promise you that you'll never be allowed to buy one again...

Jeff

Are you a lawyer as well as a model s owner ?

 

[KK2]

You are going to be sorely mistaken and I hope you have enough money for all the legal fees your going to have to pay Tesla in response. Please pursue legal action, if anything it'll force you to stop whining here all of the time about how you didn't get what you feel you're entitled to. I'm not going to pick out each of your issues and explain to you why you'll loose, badly, but just beware you're looking at fighting a battle you simply can't win. Tesla will likely settle out of court to keep it's costs down though, so hey there's that. Although I can promise you that you'll never be allowed to buy one again...

Jeff

Honestly, its depressing that you'd wish evil on a person who has bought multiple Tesla's and is a big proponent of solar energy and battery storage. He seems way more in line with Tesla's vision than the average person.

And you didn't answer my question - do you actually have skin in the game? Do you actually own an Autopilot Tesla or not? I'm betting you don't.

Here is my wish - we all see Autopilot soon, and are all smiles ear to ear.

With that, goodnight!

 

[wk057]

You are going to be sorely mistaken and I hope you have enough money for all the legal fees your going to have to pay Tesla in response. Please pursue legal action, if anything it'll force you to stop whining here all of the time about how you didn't get what you feel you're entitled to. I'm not going to pick out each of your issues and explain to you why you'll loose, badly, but just beware you're looking at fighting a battle you simply can't win. Tesla will likely settle out of court to keep it's costs down though, so hey there's that. Although I can promise you that you'll never be allowed to buy one again...

Unfortunately you're simply incorrect. As much as you want to believe and continue to repeat the things you are saying... it does not make them any more true. I've consulted with several friends and friends of friends who are attorneys or have a position at law firms that have handled cases similar to this in the past. I'm actually somewhat regretting one such contact because they've been pestering me to pursue it. So much so that they said they would likely do the case completely on contingency. Pretty sure a respectable firm isn't going to waste time on such a venture if they were going to lose.

Also, most importantly you left out a key portion of my post when you quoted me:

I'll point out that I'm not currently pursuing legal action of any kind against Tesla. I am, however, informally exploring options with them to remedy this situation to my satisfaction.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

I'm with Tesla for the long haul. I wish them nothing but success. I love my car. I'm a broken record on that. But I think some manner of redress / remedy is reasonable for people who've had a car without paid-for options for a long while. I ordered my car 300 days ago after seeing the demo. They surely were working on AutoPilot for many many months before the announcement - did the marketing folks mandate the announcement before it was ready? Or did the software engineers release it prematurely and now 10 months later they still can't fix the problems they discovered? I don't understand forum members saying that it's reasonable to sell something and not provide it. If Apple announced their new iPhone with a fingerprint scanner, took orders, shipped units, and ten months later it still wasn't operational, the world would be on fire with bad press. I don't want Tesla to get a single word of bad press. But it's reasonable to be annoyed by this and to say otherwise is either disingenuous or ill-informed IMO. I said before that they're obviously working on a multi-camera system, I will accept an upgrade on my car with this new system as full and final settlement of the late AutoPilot release. That's the one feature I almost didn't order because I figured they'd do it in the future, but AutoPilot sold me on the car that night and I ordered.