It is amazing that you two are talking about the same feature on the same model car made by Nissan. It's refreshing to see people completely disagreeing about something other than a Model S in this thread. [emoji3]
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gizmoboy
Member
Around view in our infiniti (JX35) is the absolute best feature of the car. Everyone who sees it wants it. Tremendously helpful for parking. It's the #1 new feature I'm hoping for out of the X reveal/S trickle down...
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breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
Sure, within reason. That was a demo in controlled conditions and rather short. I rather suspect things are not going to be as nice as the demo would make you presume. I suspect the car is going to be more annoying about making sure that we're paying attention. There may be things that they wanted to do but ended up unable to do because the regulators said no.
That's not what I said and it's a clear straw man. You replied to someone saying we've got "bits of autopilot" and told them what we have isn't Autopilot. I think it should be obvious to everyone that TACC is necessary for what you deem Autopilot. Ergo we have bits of it. Be upset all you want about not having the completed set of features. But Tesla has delivered part of what they promised. You can deny that all you want but it doesn't make it true.
It's pretty clear to me that what Tesla is doing is clearly an effort towards what they promised. Some people clearly want it to be happening faster. I'd guess Tesla and especially Elon would like this to be happening faster. But it isn't.
I think those are fair assumptions. But is it fair to owners who've paid for something they haven't received? What if it got delayed again, for another 3 months, or 12 months? There's a line in the sand where you, too, would agree that it's unfair, right? To OP, the line is less than 9 months. To you, it's more than 10 months.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
To me I'm fine as long as Tesla is doing their best. I could be upset but being upset doesn't change anything if Tesla is doing their best to provide the features.
I don't have a horse in this race (don't own a Tesla yet), but trying hard to deliver or not, it's clear (oh-so-clear-for-years-now) that Tesla could really try harder to better set expectations for future promises across the board.
At some point it's no longer about being an innovating, trailblazing company, and simply about being lax/lazy/uninterested in improving this aspect of the business. A reasonable person (most reasonable people?) would begin to assign the latter option a high probability at this point.
At some point it's no longer about being an innovating, trailblazing company, and simply about being lax/lazy/uninterested in improving this aspect of the business. A reasonable person (most reasonable people?) would begin to assign the latter option a high probability at this point.
Wouldn't you agree that this is a case where Tesla may be doing its best from the engineering side of things, but not on the marketing, communication and setting expectations side?
I just want to point out to all of the people saying that Tesla is doing their best and other such things: We quite literally have no idea if they're doing their best or not. The only updates we've gotten on the progress of autopilot over the last ~9 months have been from Elon generally after someone asks the question at an unrelated event/talk/etc up until the tweets a few days ago... none of which really, to me, proves this. Sure, it's cool that Elon himself is testing revisions... but in no way do we have enough information to make the assertion that they're doing the best they can from an engineering perspective. Are they probably doing their best? I don't know. Honestly they seem stretched pretty thin, IMO. (Model X, Model S updates and revisions re: Ludicrous and 90kWh pack, Tesla Energy, Roadster 3.0, Model 3, gigafactory, etc etc etc etc). I'd really find it hard to believe that autopilot is a super high priority given all of the above.
We do have enough information, however, to make the assertion that they definitely are NOT doing their best with marketing, communication, and overall customer satisfaction on the topic.
Just figured I'd throw this out there.
We do have enough information, however, to make the assertion that they definitely are NOT doing their best with marketing, communication, and overall customer satisfaction on the topic.
Just figured I'd throw this out there.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
You really think those hardware initiatives require effort from the same people that are working on Autopilot? I'm sure they require some minor software changes but most of it is minor UI changes to reflect new models and maybe some software around the smart fuse for Ludicrous mode. Though I'm skeptical that the same people working on Autopilot would be working on any of that.
You should also be aware that you can't make software projects go faster by just throwing more people at them. So if the project already has enough man power then there's no reason that other projects can't continue, even if they needed more software updates than you mentioned.
Yes Tesla could do a better job communicating the availability. We've gone over that many many times. But you've said you wanted updates. You've gotten updates. Elon now says they're working on the last edge case.
If you really feel the way you're saying you feel in this post then I'd imagine you've sold your position in Tesla. Can't imagine you'd keep your position in a company that you don't trust and who you don't believe the employees are doing their best.
I invest in companies that will appreciate in value and or pay me a div. Not on whether the employees do their "best", I have no way to quantify their level of effort.
I wasn't really referring to anyone in particular's opinion here. I was just saying that objectively we do not have sufficient information to definitively say, "Tesla is doing their best to get autopilot done and to customers." If I missed something that proves that, by all means please share. Nearly 10 months after the initial announcement I'm pretty certain someone somewhere was not doing their best. That's really the only evidence we have to go on besides a grand total of maybe 6 sentences from Elon on the subject (only two of which were unsolicited) over the past ~300 days.
I don't see anything I mentioned as solely a "hardware initiative," either.
We also have very limited information on the structure of Tesla's development team. While in general some of what you say makes sense, we don't know if that's how Tesla is operating. It could very well be the same person who makes the Ludicrous/Sport slider UI that is designing the interface for Autopilot, or integrating communication with the autopilot hardware, or test driving autopilot on vehicles. We don't know. What's logical and makes sense on the surface may not very well be what is going on behind the scenes. Are they organized in a logical sense? Probably. Do we know for sure? Nope.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with the last bit, "even if they needed more software updates than you mentioned," because I didn't refer to any software updates... (aside from the implied autopilot lane keeping update, the topic of the thread).
(Investor Hat on) My stake in TSLA has definitely been pondered lately. However, personally, from an investor standpoint, I don't care too much of the details of what the company says to customers or does internally as long as the numbers work out so that I'm poised to still make a profit. I didn't invest in TSLA because I thought they were the best at everything internally nor because I trusted them in any way to actually deliver on promises. I invested in TSLA because based on all info available at the time it was positioned to go up in value significantly, which it has and still is, and my wallet is happier for it. That's not to say in the near future I decide that their operating methods are too risky for a continued long position (deceptive marketing, failing to deliver on time, etc). Honestly, that's pretty likely given the current state of affairs and my personal experiences. However, they still have some time to turn this around. So far, regarding the matters I've mentioned here and elsewhere, they're keeping investors happier (or perhaps just more in the dark) than customers it seems.
(Tesla ball cap on)
As for the updates, yes we've finally gotten something unsolicited from Tesla (actually, not even Tesla the company but from the CEO on an unofficial channel) regarding the status of autopilot. Better than nothing I suppose. But, given that at least one of the last solicited updates turned out to be BS by Elon's own words (Early June: Beta around the end of the month; Mid July: Beta in a few weeks....) I'm not putting much stake in these unofficial one liners either. They should have been giving paying customers updates from day 1. The first unsolicited update on this unofficial channel has come nearly 10 months after the initial announcement. That's pretty ridiculous. Still nothing official, and Tesla's website still talks about autopilot and lane keeping and self parking and everything they talked about last October, software that essentially doesn't exist, as if it's ready and available today. That's doubly ridiculous.
gizmoboy
Member
I also agree that it's been poorly handled. By my readings here I now know about "Tesla Time" and not to believe anything will be available that isn't already (hence my waiting posture on my S purchase).
I won't argue with your timeliness complaints, but that sentence could be read to say that they don't make good on what's promised. I would disagree with that - Tesla has always delivered, just not often on the original timetable.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Be careful with the absolutes here. I bet people waiting on their promised lighted visors and obeche, lacewood, or carbon fiber front consoles would beg to disagree. But yes, generally speaking, Tesla delivers on what they promise, just not when they promised it.
I'm awaiting my MS delivery (September). I'm a price conscious buyer and had to pull together a lot of things to be able to afford this car. Since I'm leasing this car for 36 months - I'm paying for the Autopilot package and feature even though it's not available. What if it takes another 6 months for this to be released - which it probably will - I've now paid 6/36 months for a feature that was not readily available. I guess the onus is on me, to make that choice, but seems a bit unfair to pay for a feature (especially with a lease) that I'm not going to be able to use.
Regardless of that - I'm super excited and can't wait for my MS!
Regardless of that - I'm super excited and can't wait for my MS!
I'm awaiting my MS delivery (September). I'm a price conscious buyer and had to pull together a lot of things to be able to afford this car. Since I'm leasing this car for 36 months - I'm paying for the Autopilot package and feature even though it's not available. What if it takes another 6 months for this to be released - which it probably will - I've now paid 6/36 months for a feature that was not readily available. I guess the onus is on me, to make that choice, but seems a bit unfair to pay for a feature (especially with a lease) that I'm not going to be able to use.
Regardless of that - I'm super excited and can't wait for my MS!
Yeah, actually leasing is something I nearly completely forgot on this. We now likely have people who have leased P85Ds that have a paid feature that they didn't even get to use nearly a 3rd of the way through a 36 month lease... That is definitely something that should be addressed.
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