Autopilot Still in Beta? Edmund's Review

[SomeJoe7777]

You strike me as being quite defensive about a mildly critical comment.

I quoted your statement more because it illustrated a point I wanted to make that applies generally, not specifically because I disagreed with you. My point is that people are overconfident with AutoPilot (specifically Autosteer) and have unrealistic expectations of its capability.

Drivers who are very momentarily distracted shouldn’t have to be concerned about their AP car crossing the median into traffic.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is a very wrong statement, and shows that people have unrealistic expectations of Autopilot/Autosteer.

Autopilot/Autosteer, in its current incarnation, is Level 2 automation. That level requires immediate attention from a driver in certain circumstances. An expectation that a driver could be momentarily distracted while trusting the system is a Level 3 system, not a Level 2.

Driving with a Level 2 system and expecting it to behave like a Level 3 system will result in a potentially fatal accident.

 

[Henry82]

Autopilot/Autosteer, in its current incarnation, is Level 2 automation. That level requires immediate attention from a driver in certain circumstances. An expectation that a driver could be momentarily distracted while trusting the system is a Level 3 system, not a Level 2.

Driving with a Level 2 system and expecting it to behave like a Level 3 system will result in a potentially fatal accident.

I agree with this distinction, except that I would add that EAP is a level 3 system in stop and go traffic conditions... kind of like Audi's Traffic Jam Assist which can be engaged under 37mph... I'd say that sounds about right.

 

[xav-]

Gmail was in beta for 5 years, even in beta status, it still destroys hotmail, yahoo, aol email...
I still remember it pushed the Email box capacity to 5GB instead of 5MB norm on other free services.
I personally don't care what name Tesla gives to Autopilot, as long as it works and keep updating.
If you plan to buy something absolutely perfect before release, try toyota.

I would argue that Gmail back when it was beta was much better than nowadays, and I bet more than one person would agree

 

[Electroman]

I think some of you are getting twisted around the term ‘beta’.

If you like the feature and you think it is worth it, then pay for it and enjoy it. Majority of buyers are voting by their wallets because they find it very useful.

Nothing else matters.

 

[SP_H]

What is the take rate on AP? Imagine if EVERY Tesla owner had AP...it would increase the number of bug reports and feedback exponentially, and lead to quicker updates/improvements.

But we all know why AP isn't free.

Sorry, supid question but what’s “take rate”?
I thought even without autopilot, Tesla still have shadow-mode to continue learning. Is that true?

I just feel like everything we know about autopilot is from each other and YouTube.
I agrees that Tesla has to make money, nothing is for free.

 

[voip-ninja]

Sorry, supid question but what’s “take rate”?
I thought even without autopilot, Tesla still have shadow-mode to continue learning. Is that true?

I just feel like everything we know about autopilot is from each other and YouTube.
I agrees that Tesla has to make money, nothing is for free.

Take rate is the percentage of buyers who take (buy) the feature.

 

[Dutchie]

Agree AP should be free or at least offered at a reduced price now. I find it silly I had to purchase AP in order to have the car self park while other manufacturers give it away for free:

Honda:

Nothing is free..

 

[Dutchie]

What does "Beta" mean anyway? That it's still under development? I think autopilot will continue to be developed and refined. There will always be software updates.

 

[SP_H]

Take rate is the percentage of buyers who take (buy) the feature.

I see thank you.

 

[SP_H]

Nothing is free..

lol but it can be at a reduce price

 

[Saghost]

I agree with this distinction, except that I would add that EAP is a level 3 system in stop and go traffic conditions... kind of like Audi's Traffic Jam Assist which can be engaged under 37mph... I'd say that sounds about right.

No no no!!

Autopilot is Level 2, always and everywhere. It had no ability to handle road debris, and doesn't alw2ays handle cars cutting in gracefully.

It's a very good level 2 system, which frequently requires no correction from the driver overseeing it, especially in stop and go traffic, but Tesla has never said that they'd take responsibility for crashes under it or that you could ignore it at low speeds until it alerts you (both inherent in the definition of a level 3 system.)

I expect someday Tesla will release Level 3 systems, possibly still under the Autopilot label - but the current AP system is counting on you watching it all the time, and you're liable if anything happens while it is helping you drive.

 

[voip-ninja]

What does "Beta" mean anyway? That it's still under development? I think autopilot will continue to be developed and refined. There will always be software updates.

That is not a very good definition of Beta.

Beta typically means that a company acknowledges that there are launch gating bugs/problems or feature incompleteness with the software that is preventing it from entering into a general availability (GA) product phase.

Tesla acknowledging that AP is in Beta means that from Tesla's perspective, AP is not feature complete enough or is not performing well enough for them to put it into the GA phase of the product lifecycle.

A bitter pessimist could also claim that a company could label software as Beta indefinitely to provide some level of legal cover in case things go wrong....although I doubt a jury would see things that way... if things ever got to that point.

 

[daniel]

My take on this is that they have a feature that is not quite ready for prime time. They could wait and make it available when it is ready for prime time. But I wanted the feature now. So instead of waiting to offer it, they said, in effect, "Here are some beta features. They're not really ready yet. But if you want the beta version, we'll sell it to you." I wanted it so I bought it. Some folks didn't want it and did not buy it. I did not pay for FSD because I believe that's not going to be ready for some years yet and will do better with additional hardware.

Tesla made it very clear when we ordered our cars that they were offering to sell us a beta feature. And that autosteer would require constant hands on the wheel. They didn't try to scam anyone. I can dribble some paint on a canvas and then offer to sell it to you for $5,000 and I'm doing nothing wrong. If you don't think it's worth $5,000 you won't buy it. I think the request to unbundle TACC from autosteer is a reasonable one, but many carmakers bundle options. I had to pay for options in my 2004 Prius that I did not want, in order to get the ones I did want, because options were bundled, not offered separately.

What is genuinely disturbing is how fatally flawed the earlier version of autosteer was, as shown in the video in the OP. I was so uncomfortable with the performance of autosteer when I first got my car that I did not use it again until I got 2018.10.5. I do think that what we saw in the video was unacceptable. Were it not for OTA updates, after seeing that video I'd have asked Tesla to refund my $5,000 and disable EAP in my car.

... I find it silly I had to purchase AP in order to have the car self park while other manufacturers give it away for free:

No feature in any car is free. Some car makers bundle some features in at the base price. Auto-park in the Honda is not free. You're paying for it. You just don't have the option to not pay for it.

For Clarification. Doesn't Tesla say AUTO STEER is BETA. Not sure they say AP is BETA. I assume TACC is part of AP. Does Tesla say TACC is BETA?

Yes, both the owner's manual and the screen (where you turn it on or off) say that TACC is a beta feature.

 

[cschock]

Going back to my gaming days, I could volunteer to become a beta tester for games for FREE so that we could report bugs to the software company before they released the final version. Some people are even PAID to be beta testers.

You must not do much or any gaming these days, because this is no longer true. With "Early Access", crowd funding, etc. nowadays you pay for the privilege to beta test a game (often more than the game will cost at release!) I don't know of any company that pays people to beta test their games, except in so far as they have internal (or hired out to external companies) Quality Assurance groups. This is not to support the approach Tesla is taking and I don't even have a dog in the hunt, our Model S is pre-AP and I am fine with that. I just wanted to point out that in the (PC) game space what Tesla is doing is pretty much par for the course these days, and has been for years.

 

[SP_H]

Is auto breaking part of autopilot? How does it work?
Thanks

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Agree AP should be free or at least offered at a reduced price now. I find it silly I had to purchase AP in order to have the car self park while other manufacturers give it away for free

Does Tesla provide autonomous emergency braking & distance cruise control without needing to pay for AP?
These are included in $25K cars

 

[Henry82]

As listed on Tesla's website: Autopilot

Standard Safety Features
These active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking, have begun rolling out through over-the-air updates:

• Automatic Emergency Braking
  • Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
• Side Collision Warning
  • Warns the driver of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the car
• Front Collision Warning
  • Helps warn of impending collisions with slower moving or stationary cars
• Auto High Beams
  • Adjusts high/low beams as required

 

[jsmay311]

Does Tesla provide autonomous emergency braking & distance cruise control without needing to pay for AP?
These are included in $25K cars

No adaptive cruise control (TACC) without the $5000 EAP activation.

By bundling it with Autosteer, they're able to get people to pay a LOT more for it than other companies. (Of course, then you also get Autosteer, but not everyone would otherwise want it at that price.)

 

[SP_H]

Does Tesla provide autonomous emergency braking & distance cruise control without needing to pay for AP?
These are included in $25K cars

I don’t think they do
Unfortunately it’s part to $5k autopilot. Actually they have auto breaking as standard feature, no distance cruise control. I think. Anyone can confirm this?

 

[daniel]

Is auto breaking part of autopilot? How does it work?
Thanks

Automatic emergency braking is included with all versions. It is not necessary to have EAP to have this. According to the manual, this will reduce the force of an impact. Not prevent a crash. Just diminish the force.

With the EAP package, if you have TACC engaged, the car will brake to slow as needed to maintain the set distance to the car ahead of you, including bringing the car to a full stop if the car ahead stops, and resume when the car ahead resumes. With version 2018.10.5 if you are using TACC (or autosteer, which also turns on TACC) on city streets and there is a red light ahead with cars stopped, the Model 3 will wait until pretty much the last minute before braking abruptly and bringing the car to a stop. Then it will resume when the car ahead resumes. (It cannot detect stop signs or traffic lights. It will only stop if there's a car stopped ahead of you.)

Automatic collision avoidance braking is on by default every time you start the car. You can turn it off from the screen. It will reduce your speed by 25 mph and then disengage, and will not work if you were driving faster than 90 mph. So if you were driving 80 mph it will slow you to 55 mph and then disengage. I will leave it to someone smarter than me to try to figure out why this is.