TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Battery degradation???

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Silver_Bullet, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2018
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I have a 2018 Long Range Dual Motor... Just charged it to 90% and range is only 261... I have been charging on supercharger only. Is this battery degradation???

    Many thanks for answering.
     
    • Funny x 1
  2. 1.21GW

    1.21GW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    655
    Location:
    Michigan
    #2 1.21GW, Jul 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    Yes and I have a 2018 LR dual motor and I am at 260 miles @90%

    to be clear, we can’t be 100% sure that it is degradation. It could just be software calibration. Either way, many people are in the same boat as us.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. RC2785

    RC2785 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Chicago
    It could be, or it might not. The cars onboard system calculates the total range based on your driving behavior and maybe some other factors as well, battery degradation is probably included in that calculation but it's not the whole story.
     
    • Disagree x 6
    • Like x 2
  4. MJP.P3D-

    MJP.P3D- Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    386
    Location:
    Chicago
    Run the car down to 20% or less, charge back up to at least 90%, run it back down to 20% and then finally charge back up to 90% once again (two full cycles)....the second time @90% should provide a fairly accurate assessment of current battery degradation, if any. Good luck.
     
  5. Perscitus

    Perscitus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2019
    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    New York
    This ^^^.

    You can also drain the battery down yo say 10-15% SoC, then let it L2 or supercharge back up to 90 or even 100%.

    As it reaches 98, 99, 100 the BMS will re-learn your actual top/max capacity.
    Drive off and again drain down to 20% or below and juice back up to 100%.

    Once the car reports its done charging and fully topped off, switch the GUI from SoC to Miles and report back.

    I am at >2 years with an AWD+ that is rarely ever plugged in and showing 305-310 miles at 100% SoC.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  6. Occar

    Occar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    TN
    Absolutely not. Please don’t spread myths. The cars have a power used per mile constant. This doesn’t change. It doesn’t matter how you drive it. The only factors that play in to it are which model you have and which wheels the car is programmed as having. The cars have an estimated power available in the battery. The range shown is this constant divided by the estimated power available in the battery.
     
    • Like x 8
    • Helpful x 3
    • Disagree x 2
    • Informative x 1
  7. Silver_Bullet

    Silver_Bullet Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2018
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That's how I normally charge my car. Drive down to 15-20% then charge to 85-95% at supercharger. Expressed concern at Tesla service in app and they said their engineer ran a test remotely and it's fine.
     
  8. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,892
    Location:
    California
    Because it is. You have about 6.5% degradation from new if the rated range is to be believed.

    Only 23.5% more degradation to go before something is “not fine” and you have a warranty claim Tesla will do something about.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1
  9. 1.21GW

    1.21GW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    655
    Location:
    Michigan
    #9 1.21GW, Jul 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    I typically charge mine every night from a low of 70% up to 90% using L2. We have very different styles yet the result is similar
     
    • Like x 2
  10. camalaio

    camalaio Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,091
    Location:
    Vernon, BC, Canada
    Answer: Yes.

    More detailed answer:

    To know if this is "normal", we need a lot more details. But I'll skip requesting all that and summarize as just this: Battery degradation at any point in life below 10% is "normal" for these cars. Some people are more lucky and get less, some are unlucky and get more. Some of this is how you treat the battery (Supercharging exclusively is doing you no benefit, for example), but some of it is also just by chance of which cells you got in a battery pack.

    Some 2018 models did have a service bulletin for bad packs. I think if yours was one of these, it would be much worse though.

    All the answers of it depending on temperature, estimation, etc. are mostly correct (minus it changing on driving behaviour - it does not change based on how you drive). That said, a 2018 battery will absolutely have noticeable amounts of degradation and this is a normal part of the lifecycle.
     
  11. Occar

    Occar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    TN
    Note this should say constant divided in to, not divided by. It is the power divided by the constant, not vice versa. It won't let me edit the original post.

    For what it's worth, my 2018 with only 7k miles on it has no degradation to speak of. I 100% charged it late last week and it estimates 325 miles remaining still. I leave it set at 90%, and plugged in all the time. It seems that these weird scenarios happen for folks who have weird charging habits and don't leave their car plugged in all the time when at home.

    In winter months my 100% charge is 2-3 miles lower and my 90% charge is 1 or 2 miles lower. This vehicle is in an uninsulated garage.
     
  12. Occar

    Occar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    TN
    This seems a common theme with people who report this type of battery estimate. You really should leave your vehicle plugged in all the time when at home. A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  13. zhu-

    zhu- <insert custom title>

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    737
    Location:
    NJ
    How much of an impact would the wheel selection make? I actually have 20" selected because it looks cool in the app even though I have uncapped aeros. I felt like my battery doesn't seem to go as far in the past few months but I switched to 20's in the software since it came out last year.
     
    • Funny x 1
  14. Occar

    Occar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    TN
    That’s easy enough to find out. Just swap to the other wheels and see how much it changes.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. focher

    focher Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages:
    905
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I wish there was better forum functionality to mitigate the ongoing proliferation of “battery degradation” threads.

    I’d be willing to bet no one ever did this with their ICE vehicle.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Love x 1
  16. tomas

    tomas Only partially psycho

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,086
    Location:
    Chicago/Montecito
    LOL... of course not! The ICE MPG and range estimates are terrible, high variability, and everyone knows it so nobody freaks out about it.

    to OP... please read up and research. Most 2018s ( including the 2 I have) will have 100% around 290 and 90% around 260. It is totally normal. Thousands of data points in tons of studies show that batteries lose ~5% in first year, and <1% per year thereafter.

    you are NORMAL. Sorry to say, not special.

    enjoy your normal car!!! Stop worrying!:)
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  17. camalaio

    camalaio Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,091
    Location:
    Vernon, BC, Canada
    Let's be fair, ICE fuel tanks don't noticeably decrease in capacity as part of their regular life cycle. Batteries do, and start doing so immediately.

    And yeah, ICE gets worse mileage when they're old, but like really old. Not something you see just 2 years into ownership.

    I'm not saying ICE is better, just that they're different and there is no precedent do this with an ICE vehicle because they behave entirely different over their lifetime (plus fueling infrastructure is very different currently).
     
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  18. sduck

    sduck Mr. Duck

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,125
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    Are you kidding? Lots of people do this. Look on the app store for your phone - there are dozens of apps that track mileage per gallon used. I've tracked the mileage of the last 4 cars on a phone or palm pilot app, and now do so with my tesla also. Most of these cars held their average mileage fairly steadily throughout my ownership, except for the FJ Cruiser - that thing was a major gas hog, small changes in how you drove could make big differences in total mileage per gallon.
     
  19. Silicon Desert

    Silicon Desert Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,571
    Location:
    Sparks Nevada / GF 1
    agree, except for the one time I went out to unplug the car to take a trip and it would not unplug. Had to call mobile tech and even he had to call yet another mobile tech :eek:
    After that lesson, I check to make sure it will unplug LONG before I want to go anywhere. Yet to realize, that one problem was probably very unusual.
     
  20. PNWLeccy

    PNWLeccy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    626
    Location:
    Seattle
    Never heard of this. Haven't seen any TSB's about related to M3 battery packs. What VIN range is impacted?
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC