Battery Fuse Replacement 2016 Model S 90D

[Scotland41]

I would assume that Tesla argument is that it is a maintenance item, since it has a finite lifetime. (A battery that runs out of energy after x amount of time.) The fuse hasn't "failed" so it isn't a warranty item. You could equate it to a timing belt on an ICE engine. The difference is that Tesla didn't list the fuse replacement in the maintenance section of the manual.

Yes but the eMMC could be argued as the same thing and they responded to that.
The fact that they've modified the new fuses to be powered by the car indicates it was poor design, particularly the older fuses that require the battery pack to be dropped.
I don't suppose they can monitor the actual fuse batteries' voltage to see if they have actually gone flat.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yes but the eMMC could be argued as the same thing and they responded to that.

Only after NHTSA forced them to. I don't recall exactly, but I think part of NHTSA's complaint was that the eMMC didn't last long enough.

I think what will bite Tesla on this is that they didn't list it as a maintenance item.

 

[mongo]

No-one should be paying out of pocket for this. This would be like making a seatbelt requiring a replacement at "X" amount of time, or crash bars requiring replacement at "X" amount of time, or crumple zones needing replacement at "X" amount of time. The fuse is a safety item, part of the battery, and programmed by Tesla to require replacement at their self-determined time. The battery warranty states nothing about excluding the fuse.

The battery warranty covers pack capacity. That's it.
As long as the pyro fuse doesn't trigger on terminal low battery voltage, it won't impact normal operation.

Agreed. Tesla implemented a recall for the eMMC chip issue and the pyro fuse is a critical safety component. If they can take a financial hit by dropping the price of their cars they can show responsibility concerning the safety of their customers, emergency responders and the public.

If Tesla may have gone with a high safety approach; in which case, the car will refuse to activate the contactors with an out of expiration pyro fuse.

Yes but the eMMC could be argued as the same thing and they responded to that.
The fact that they've modified the new fuses to be powered by the car indicates it was poor design, particularly the older fuses that require the battery pack to be dropped.
I don't suppose they can monitor the actual fuse batteries' voltage to see if they have actually gone flat.

eMMC failure took out the federally required back up camera and control interface. That's a clear issue.
Loss of pyro functionality is only an issue if there is a HV fault while the car is active and the contactors can't break the short on their own.

There is no monitoring of the fuse.

The original fuse was purely mechanical and not expected to need replacement, thus the more difficult top access. Hard acceleration and part variation resulted in false trips. The battery powered version was the method to correct that issue. With that change, Tesla knew they would need serviced and moved access to underneath.

 

[mongo]

I think what will bite Tesla on this is that they didn't list it as a maintenance item.

Nor was the 12V battery... They did add this verbiage sometime after 2015:

 

[Scotland41]

Wiper blades, brake pads, tyres I can afford.
My fuse is on top

 

[NewbyMaybe]

One major benefit to the upgrade is the cover will be replaced if necessary and resealed.

 

[MP3Mike]

Wiper blades, brake pads, tyres I can afford.
My fuse is on top

Isn't replacing a fuse on top still cheaper than new tires?

 

[mongo]

Isn't replacing a fuse on top still cheaper than new tires?

Likely, but it doesn't replace buying tires.
One might have the budget for a set of tires, but not two sets of tires.

 

[supratachophobia]

Yes but the eMMC could be argued as the same thing and they responded to that.
The fact that they've modified the new fuses to be powered by the car indicates it was poor design, particularly the older fuses that require the battery pack to be dropped.
I don't suppose they can monitor the actual fuse batteries' voltage to see if they have actually gone flat.

Yeah, but when did they finally confess to that? It was years after it was first reported.

 

[supratachophobia]

The battery warranty covers pack capacity. That's it.
As long as the pyro fuse doesn't trigger on terminal low battery voltage, it won't impact normal operation.



If Tesla may have gone with a high safety approach; in which case, the car will refuse to activate the contactors with an out of expiration pyro fuse.



eMMC failure took out the federally required back up camera and control interface. That's a clear issue.
Loss of pyro functionality is only an issue if there is a HV fault while the car is active and the contactors can't break the short on their own.

There is no monitoring of the fuse.

The original fuse was purely mechanical and not expected to need replacement, thus the more difficult top access. Hard acceleration and part variation resulted in false trips. The battery powered version was the method to correct that issue. With that change, Tesla knew they would need serviced and moved access to underneath.

Fyi, to my knowledge, there isn't a capacity warranty on model S batteries. At least not on mine.

 

[MP3Mike]

The battery warranty covers pack capacity. That's it.
As long as the pyro fuse doesn't trigger on terminal low battery voltage, it won't impact normal operation.

Actually, for the Model S/Xs this impacts, the warranty only covers HV battery failure, not capacity. I would argue that going into limp mode is a failure, so if that happens while the warranty is still valid then they should cover it.

 

[mongo]

Actually, for the Model S/Xs this impacts, the warranty only covers HV battery failure, not capacity. I would argue that going into limp mode is a failure, so if that happens while the warranty is still valid then they should cover it.

In that case, the pack warranty only covers failure, not loss of safety features. I wouldn't expect a limp mode, that wouldn't impact failure modes. Either it keeps full functionality with warnings, or the car won't engage the HV contactors.

(It's Friday so I won't argue that a pack failure is zero percent capacity ).

 

[MP3Mike]

I wouldn't expect a limp mode, that wouldn't impact failure modes. Either it keeps full functionality with warnings, or the car won't engage the HV contactors.

@wk057 says that the BMS puts it into limp mode once it is passed the battery life time. (Also, as it gets closer to the age limit it lowers the trip point such that you can trigger it on a WOT.)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1487165673553993729

But maybe that is for after a sale trip from a WOT event?

 

[mnasr87]

Come to SLC Utah, they covered mine. Would be worth the trip if they’d cover it for sure

Hey Zack, I used your invoice at my service center to try and get this repaired under the battery warranty. However, the service advisor here in Illinois is saying you may have had an extended or existing used car warranty. They suggest that you may have purchased the car recently and therefore have a warranty on the vehicle for the first year after purchase.

Can you please let me know some of the details of how long you’ve had the car, and any existing warranties on the car at the time you had it replaced?

Many thanks in advance.

- Mustafa

 

[mongo]

@wk057 says that the BMS puts it into limp mode once it is passed the battery life time. (Also, as it gets closer to the age limit it lowers the trip point such that you can trigger it on a WOT.)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1487165673553993729

But maybe that is for after a sale trip from a WOT event?

Yah, came here to post his new Tweet. It will limit motor power to maintain calculated trigger limit headroom. I was thinking failure mode was lack of drive to trigger the squib, but apparently the comparison value drifts first.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1682467606563807236

 

[brainhouston]

Part Number	Hybrid Pyro Fuse Type
1090924-00-*	Self-Powered
1111313-00-*	Self-Powered
1111445-00-*	Self-Powered
1056211-00-*	Battery Powered
1077177-00-*	Battery Powered
1086649-00-*	Battery Powered
1112479-00-*	Battery Powered
1112553-00-*	Battery Powered

Did some eBay research with these #'s n turns out i have a battery powered one (aka Hybrid), 9/16 production

Also it has a small wire attached on one side:

It seems that Self-Powered ones are labeled as "Cur powered" n don't have a small wire...
Should be easy to tell which one u have by just opening the cover

Also a nice video of Hybrid internals n how it works:

 

[EternalChampion]

Interestingly, my fuse warning was not present on my commute today. No software update. This is wild.

 

[taimurasad]

Interestingly, my fuse warning was not present on my commute today. No software update. This is wild.

Oh wow. So basically what SC told you to ignore and it will go away and it went away?

This happened on your S or X?

 

[ucmndd]

No-one should be paying out of pocket for this. This would be like making a seatbelt requiring a replacement at "X" amount of time, or crash bars requiring replacement at "X" amount of time, or crumple zones needing replacement at "X" amount of time. The fuse is a safety item, part of the battery, and programmed by Tesla to require replacement at their self-determined time. The battery warranty states nothing about excluding the fuse.

Should they be replacing TPMS sensors for free by the same logic?

Battery powered, finite life, federally mandated safety component…

 

[EternalChampion]

Oh wow. So basically what SC told you to ignore and it will go away and it went away?

This happened on your S or X?

This is my S.