Battery Swap Now in Beta

[snellenr]

The pack swap concept is ideally suited for supporting commercial applications. Imagine that Acme Cab Company buys a fleet of Teslas, and then signs a contract with Tesla that covers pack swaps for the entire fleet. When Joe Driver needs to recharge, he does a quick in-and-out at the pack station and continues working. The cab company would contract for a certain number of swaps, but the packs themselves are up to Tesla -- which means that the commercial applications will provide the cash flow to fund the facility itself and a large "pool" of packs that are available for swapping to the commercial users *as well as* the rest of us.

Imagine a panel/delivery truck, built on the Model S "skateboard" platform...

 

[Owner]

I've been to a lot of superchargers (70), driven across country in the Tesla.

I actually like the idea of a battery swap.

Would I use it a lot - No (I have a cheap streak). Would I have used it today at Harris Ranch - yes - when I saw it was almost done. I was quite tired and have a bad cold and it would have been well worth the $50 or so.... I-5 is BORING.... Think of folks on an expense account. I think it is a great option for a few highly traveled dull drives....

More info on my blog.....

As far as range is concerned, there will always be people who say "yeah but I don't want to stop for 40 minutes every 220 miles". Although most of us owners realize stopping for Supercharging is not usually a big deal, the alternative of a 5 minute gas stop will always be preferable to a not-insignificant portion of the masses (as silly as it is. You know the fuel at Superchargers is free, right folks? What price do you put on your time?)

 

[Model 3]

I wonder if 60's will be eligible? I doubt they will have 60KWh batteries for swapping. If they allow a temporary swap to an 85, that will hinder 85 sales and thus SuperCharger funding because 60 owners can do swap stations for long trips and never pat the SC access fee.

My guess is that if they allow 60's on the swap-station, they will have to buy the "supercharger access" package first...

 

[tomas]

When will we get a price list (based on miles and condition) to permanently swap an A pack for the latest one????

This

 

[Beckler]

I hope it works but I fear the current plan is unfortunately not going to be well-received. There's too much logistical worry involved. Tesla needs to find a way to make it as no-nonsense as supercharging is, and I think they could do it. Namely, there needs to be no cost involved, and no pack pickup requirement or anything else. You just stop in, swap and nothing else. Why the original battery pack pickup requirement anyway? That's the worst part I would say. If it's just to prevent packs accumulating at one station, for now just have trucks ready to move them around. Or whatever it takes to get swap working initially and just absorb the cost, because as Todd above in post #14 says, it fixes one of the last major (and actually somewhat justified) EV objection. In 6 years when there are 100 million model 3's on the road things will be different anyway.

 

[Alexander]

I want to be on that list of beta testers!! I have to do a lot of traveling up to San Francisco next month and ill gladly drive instead of fly... how do you get on the list? Does anyone know?

 

[green1]

I hope it works but I fear the current plan is unfortunately not going to be well-received. There's too much logistical worry involved. Tesla needs to find a way to make it as no-nonsense as supercharging is, and I think they could do it. Namely, there needs to be no cost involved, and no pack pickup requirement or anything else. You just stop in, swap and nothing else. Why the original battery pack pickup requirement anyway? That's the worst part I would say. If it's just to prevent packs accumulating at one station, for now just have trucks ready to move them around. Or whatever it takes to get swap working initially and just absorb the cost, because as Todd above in post #14 says, it fixes one of the last major (and actually somewhat justified) EV objection. In 6 years when there are 100 million model 3's on the road things will be different anyway.

The original pack pickup requirement is because batteries are expensive and prone to damage from improper use. If you have no charge for swaps, and no requirement to pick up your old pack, people will constantly be trying to get themselves a better pack than they currently have. They'll also be pissed off if they get one worse than they currently have.

As has been pointed out earlier, there's 2 ways this makes sense, one is if you swap back to your original pack later, the other is in a fleet situation, a cab company would minimize downtime this way and could run a car 24/7 pretty much.

 

[roblab]

The original pack pickup requirement is because batteries are expensive and prone to damage from improper use. If you have no charge for swaps, and no requirement to pick up your old pack, people will constantly be trying to get themselves a better pack than they currently have. They'll also be pissed off if they get one worse than they currently have.

As has been pointed out earlier, there's 2 ways this makes sense, one is if you swap back to your original pack later, the other is in a fleet situation, a cab company would minimize downtime this way and could run a car 24/7 pretty much.

I like my A pack! I don't want a D pack. My battery is 2 years old and 60,000 miles on it with less than 10% degradation. That's why you get to keep your old battery.

 

[Beckler]

If you have no charge for swaps, and no requirement to pick up your old pack, people will constantly be trying to get themselves a better pack than they currently have. They'll also be pissed off if they get one worse than they currently have.

Well I think both of those issues go away if pack swap becomes very common: trying to "get a better one" would only happen if you were keeping the better one for years - which I suppose you could, but I'm assuming most people won't choose to avoid a 60 sec. swap instead of a 60 min charge, for too long. Second, you won't be disappointed with getting a poorer condition battery if you know it's getting swapped again next week anyway (or in 3 hours!) Ultimately there will be a variety of battery conditions out there (but even then, varying by what, maybe 10% capacity? Who cares!) and everyone drives an "average" battery over time then.

 

[Todd Burch]

I understand the argument for just making swapping so common that the "ownership" you feel over your own battery is lost...but a very real problem that arises in that case is: if you always know you can swap your battery out for another, nobody will take ANY care of their pack. People might just range charge all the time.

If Tesla can engineer a pack in which it's virtually impossible to abuse, this would work. But as long as leaving a pack at 100% indicated state of charge for prolonged periods or excessively running to zero can degrade the battery, I think it makes sense to have the pickup requirement.

Honestly, the requirement to pick up your original pack it feasible. It covers probably 95% of road trip situations, which are round trip. For the remaining 5%, you can Supercharge. Also, let's remember that a small percentage of the Tesla fleet is on a road trip (needing to charge away from home) at a given time, and an even smaller percentage will be doing a pack swap at any one time. I think this should result in a manageable number of stored packs at a given location for some time. (Model 3 will obviously require additional infrastructure, but Tesla has the time to get it established before Model 3 comes to market.

 

[gaswalla]

The swap station has tesla branding (sign) on the side of the building now. Crew was doing final clean up inside and around this morning.

 

[SteveW25561]

I'm glad for the realization of the swap station and that it moves forward to more sites.

That said, imagine a future where Telsa has even more (eg 2x) supercharger stations: that way you could make more frequent but shorter and much more efficient charges -- right now, many need to sit longer at the supercharger to ensure either get to the next one with range left over.

 

[Reykjavik]

I just don't think the battery swap is better than the supercharger. It depends on what the price ultimately is, but if it costs as much as it does to fill up a tank of gas, I don't see the value.

Imagine you pulled up to a gas station, and someone offered to buy you half a tank of gas on the condition that you sat in your car or a nearby coffee shop for 15 minutes first. How many people would take that deal? I suspect that if they could do it every time they get gas, they would.

I'm glad that they are putting the station in, I just don't think they'll get much business.

 

[apacheguy]

I'm glad that they are putting the station in, I just don't think they'll get much business.

Well the interest and reception this news has received just on TMC would seem to suggest otherwise. There are a number of us who would be more than happy to be the first customers.

 

[dhanson865]

Well, that fraction is actually much lower than 99%. Almost 50% of Tesla sales are in CA IIRC. Certainly for the domestic market that's true, but I don't know what the sales fraction is when you consider international.

50% of the sales were in CA at some point I'm sure but as new stores are added to the other states the sales mix will continue to move away from the CA dominance.

I'd also argue that even if the cars were first sold in CA, used Model S cars will migrate to other states as they get sold at auction / eBay / autotrader / etcetera.

Even if you ignore the CA dominance in the US how many swap stations are in Norway, China, etcetera?

If some part of CA is the only location for the battery swap testing that still leaves users at the extreme ends of the state + the other 49 states + all the other countries with Model S owners that don't live anywhere near the test area.

Sorry if I think the CA centric view is a little selfcentered / myopic.

- - - Updated - - -

I just don't think the battery swap is better than the supercharger. It depends on what the price ultimately is, but if it costs as much as it does to fill up a tank of gas, I don't see the value.

I don't think battery swap is better than supercharging for general use but it may be that at some point down the road it will be easier in metro areas than dealing with crowded superchargers with lines/traffic issues.

Imagine a city big enough to have 24-32 superchargers in one location. What if instead they did 16 superchargers and a swap station? Anyone in a hurry will take the quicker / more expensive option to avoid the wait for a supercharger if it happens to be crowded. Then again on off peak hours / days when the superchargers are nearly empty they might take the cheaper option because it isn't a hassle that time.

 

[slcasner]

I wonder to what extent the motivation for putting in a real battery swap station was to restore the 7 CARB credits for fast charge capability. That is, presuming that having one such station would qualify. Of course, the number of hydrogen fueling stations in CA is very small as well, but more than one.

 

[Hodginator]

Whoever is part of the beta program, please post a video of the batt swap in action.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I wonder to what extent the motivation for putting in a real battery swap station was to restore the 7 CARB credits for fast charge capability. That is, presuming that having one such station would qualify. Of course, the number of hydrogen fueling stations in CA is very small as well, but more than one.

One station probably doesn't help that much. The new CARB rule is that the amount of bonus credits an automaker gets is equivalent to the number of swaps they do that year.

Hydrogen cars are exempt from this (although even if they were subject to this, it's expected anyways for a hydrogen car to do a "fast refuel" at least once).

 

[JohnQ]

50% of the sales were in CA at some point I'm sure but as new stores are added to the other states the sales mix will continue to move away from the CA dominance.

I'd also argue that even if the cars were first sold in CA, used Model S cars will migrate to other states as they get sold at auction / eBay / autotrader / etcetera.

Even if you ignore the CA dominance in the US how many swap stations are in Norway, China, etcetera?

If some part of CA is the only location for the battery swap testing that still leaves users at the extreme ends of the state + the other 49 states + all the other countries with Model S owners that don't live anywhere near the test area.

Sorry if I think the CA centric view is a little selfcentered / myopic.

I don't get this. It's a pilot with one location. It's in a convenient location for Tesla to maintain the equipment, determine how well it works and make incremental improvements based on real-life circumstances and gauge customer reaction. It's where there's a high density of Model S drivers.

They're a California company. Why would they do a single station pilot anywhere else?

 

[ecarfan]

If some part of CA is the only location for the battery swap testing that still leaves users at the extreme ends of the state + the other 49 states + all the other countries with Model S owners that don't live anywhere near the test area.
Sorry if I think the CA centric view is a little selfcentered / myopic.

You are leaping to unwarranted conclusions. The Harris Ranch battery swap station is a "pilot" station. It is the first one. It is to test the potential demand for battery swapping and work the bugs out of the machinery. It is BETA. The I5 route is heavily traveled by Model S owners. The Tesla engineering team is a an easy days drive away. They just want to see if the battery swap idea is viable. They have to start somewhere and that location is ideal for all those reasons.