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"Best Car for $35K even without any options" vs
- Thread starter insaneoctane
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- Model 3
mmd
Active Member
How much is the V6 engine, 5 minute 100% fill-up and ~600 mile highway range for the Model 3?
A well equipped Accord is ~$26k, at which point the comparison becomes more one sided. Then, there are always the discounts to lower price further. No one is paying MSRP.
2017 Honda Accord Sedan Pricing & Features | Edmunds
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I'm surprised nobody has brought up the single biggest competitive advantage for the Model 3. ICE has always had a performance/efficiency tradeoff. The Model 3 will get better than 100MPGe efficiency while performing exceptionally well over the entire vehicle range. Compare that to auto-adjusting seats or other negligible "advantages" of the comparison ICE cars.
deonb
Active Member
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
"How much". LOL.
The Accord V6 Touring is rated 21/33/25 mpg from what I remember. Have fun paying for gasoline and oil changes. Don't forget to budget at least $1000 for a timing belt change at the 7-year mark. The Honda J35 is smooth as butter... but it requires more maintenance than the K-series engines with timing chains.
You won't get 600 miles range on a V6 Accord unless the conditions are very favorable and you run the 17.1 gallon tank to the last drop. The car will start to bitch for gas at around 14.5-15 gallons used. This is deliberate in order to keep the fuel pump submerged and cool. 600 miles is doable on the K24 and hybrid motors.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
Will be interesting to see what Tesla does with the $600/year service when the M3 comes out, especially since it will require exactly the same service as the MS and MX. You could probably run the Honda for 6 years and not spend $600 on service.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
You might think twice after dealing with Honda's awful entertainment system.
You've got it backwards. You want the Honda 6-speed, which is all kinds of awesome.
The tech features in contrast are garbage in this generation. Honda actually is going with an entirely different Android based system in the future because the current head units are so laggy and unreliable.
The 2017 Honda Accord Touring sedan goes 0-60 in 5.7 seconds according to MT (Honda Accord: 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year Contender - Motor Trend)
Honda actually has entertainment system(s), unlike a Tesla that basically only has a terrible MP3 player and a radio.
mmd
Active Member
On-the-go and in-home charging costs more in California now than filling up the gas tank. Take a look at the PG&E rate plans, and EVGO fast charge rates. To compensate, one needs to install solar, but the NEM plans are no longer that favorable and still costs money upfront. 100 mpge etc. means little if it costs more to fuel up an EV.
Making sense of the rates
Tesla's SC rate plans are not out yet for M3, so we'll need to wait to compare. There is also the issue of slower fast charging after many SC/DC charging with the Model 3. No such issue with the gas tank. After 10 -20 years, it will still fill up in < 5 mins.
I quoted midpoint of ~585 miles and ~615 mile ranges for different Accord EPA ranges from Edmunds' spec sheet. Running out of gas is rarely an issue. But if someone is really driving into no man's land like in the movie 'The Road Warrior', there are the gas cans to carry few extra gallons in the trunk
But to your point, the electric EPA range for Model S,X and 3 are also under idealistic scenarios. In cold weather, that range will be much less. After few years, even lesser.
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@mmd I am sympathetic to the argument, but I will say this to counter: the convenience of home/work charging is pretty priceless. For those whom it covers most of their driving (which is a lot of people), it is just a very, very nice feature to have.
I've started to hate gas stations - as have many people here, of course. Still got a couple of ICEs to ditch at some point...
That said, obviously buying a Tesla means giving up on a lot of interior functionality and comforts. Tesla's are incredibly spartan (and not just in a good way) and interior quality and progress so far is very a mixed affair...
I've started to hate gas stations - as have many people here, of course. Still got a couple of ICEs to ditch at some point...
That said, obviously buying a Tesla means giving up on a lot of interior functionality and comforts. Tesla's are incredibly spartan (and not just in a good way) and interior quality and progress so far is very a mixed affair...
It's got the 7.3, McR......AND it's a Quigley conversion, so it's 4X4. Has the world's finest roof rack, too: big deep aerodynamic powder-coated aluminum tub with ladders up both sides; I had a prominent boat-builder here craft that for me.
It's got your name on it! Come on up and drive it back.....
Big-T
Member
Since everyone is going around TCO (Total cost of ownership). I think it's prudent to mention that many people (if not most) will need to put a charger in their house. Yes you can technically trickle charge a Tesla on a regular outlet but I for most people either a 14-50 or a Tesla charger is in the cards.
If you average out some on a Tesla charger and some on the 14-50 plus install let's say an average of $500. Just to translate that into a gas amount at $2.50 per gallon with a car getting 30mpg that's 6,000 miles worth of gas.
Yep I get it's a one time cost I get not everyone will need one but it's something that's rarely talked about so I want to make sure it's not forgotten about in TCO calculations.
If you average out some on a Tesla charger and some on the 14-50 plus install let's say an average of $500. Just to translate that into a gas amount at $2.50 per gallon with a car getting 30mpg that's 6,000 miles worth of gas.
Yep I get it's a one time cost I get not everyone will need one but it's something that's rarely talked about so I want to make sure it's not forgotten about in TCO calculations.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Elon's comments were more about emphasizing that the base Model 3 will still be a desirable trim level. Personally, I don't find the Honda Accord desirable in any trim level, and the same could be said for the Camry. However, that's just my subjective opinion, many other people are happy to put money down on either.
Model S M.D.
Ludicrous Radiologist
This is a good point. I would actually pay MORE for the convenience/safety of home charging. (In Texas I'm paying 8.7 cents per kWh, so my fill ups are much cheaper than gas) I drive ~30 miles/day and my car gets 315 miles on a full charge (~284 @90%). I never ever think about range and I definitely never have to think about going to the gas station. I can't imagine the major inconvenienc of filling up in very cold temperatures or even in the extreme heat.
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
The Honda Accord is a great example:
A great example of a highly refined car from the last century!
I've owned a couple of Hondas and I if I ever walked on one of their sales lots now it would be because I got lost.
I even really like the styling of the new Civic..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................sorry I dozed off thinking about their current offerings.
I love how some people (who are seemingly negative against Tesla in every thread and every post, but call themselves "objective" or "realistic) are holding up a boring, nose heavy, mediocre efficiency car as the epitome of automotive excellence! And Car and Driver's 10 best? They've had their noses up Honda's backside so long they're nuzzling their pyloric sphincter! (look it up)
A great example of a highly refined car from the last century!
I've owned a couple of Hondas and I if I ever walked on one of their sales lots now it would be because I got lost.
I even really like the styling of the new Civic..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................sorry I dozed off thinking about their current offerings.
I love how some people (who are seemingly negative against Tesla in every thread and every post, but call themselves "objective" or "realistic) are holding up a boring, nose heavy, mediocre efficiency car as the epitome of automotive excellence! And Car and Driver's 10 best? They've had their noses up Honda's backside so long they're nuzzling their pyloric sphincter! (look it up)
320i might be base at your dealer...
In my part of the world the base is 318i for ~$36k USD. I
t 'offers' manual transmission and all of the 8.9s 0-100kmh.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
Which car will have better music entertainment SW after you own it for 3 years?Honda actually has entertainment system(s), unlike a Tesla that basically only has a terrible MP3 player and a radio.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
I don't know if you can say "many if not most", average US household commute of 20-30 miles should only need 5-8kwh, which an overnight charge on 110V US plug can easily provide, even if you put it on an electricity-bill-friendly charging schedule staring late at night. I plan to use my 110V for daily charging. The only time I can imagine I will need more is if I have back-to-back-to-back 100 mile days, which I really can't remember the last time happening.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Contrary to a lot of what I read here, California isn't representative of the United States. Energy costs for different types can vary greatly depending on where one lives. And there have been periods of recent history where gasoline price have been much higher than they are today.
It has not been factually established that the Model 3 packs will see reduced DCFC rates like later Model S w' 90 kWh packs with many DCFC cycles.
Remember to quote the motor type for each range. The V6, I4, and Hybrid powertrains yield different range estimates. HTH.
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