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Big Oil getting scared, full page WSJ ad (Exxon)
- Thread starter RubberToe
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- Tesla Inc.
artsci
Sponsor
Long ago, before I became an EV convert, I would look in awe at a performance car making lots of noise and blasting heat out of the exhaust pipe.
Now when I hear the noise, and feel the heat, I just think of wasted energy. It is a profound change of viewpoint when you start to realize that.
I suppose there will always be some people that like to flaunt excess and have a "money to burn" attitude that thinks burning more fuel is a sign of superiority, but hopefully they are just a small minority.
Now when I hear the noise, and feel the heat, I just think of wasted energy. It is a profound change of viewpoint when you start to realize that.
I suppose there will always be some people that like to flaunt excess and have a "money to burn" attitude that thinks burning more fuel is a sign of superiority, but hopefully they are just a small minority.
Can someone tell me what percentage of oil retrieved goes towards transportation? I had a oil guy over for a chat who noted its " a rounding error" . The one source I find says 45 per cent.
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/energy-overview/fossil-fuels/
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/energy-overview/fossil-fuels/
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Tesla Co-Founder Marc Tarpenning gave a presentation in which he said among other interesting things that 50% of oil is for personal ground transportation and 2/3 of oil is for all ground transport.
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Powers the pipeline. Takes a lot of energy to pump the oil. They typically use gas turbines, aka jet engines, to drive the pumps.
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Yes, a rounding error away from being ALL oil use.
mknox
Well-Known Member
To be fair, there are losses in the production, transmission and distribution of electricity too. I would be curious to know how the two commodities compare in terms of their losses in transport...
Although is no longer available from Tesla directly, as thy say it needs updating, this early whitepaper from Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning talks about exactly those as part of this comparison:
Tesla 21st Century Electric Car
Good stuff in there...
Wow, I had no idea that the "transmission loss" for the oil would be that high. I guessed that must be what it was, but thought I'd ask anyway.
It is an average loss of 7% in the US.
It is more or less a wash with the energy cost to delivery the fuel to filling stations and the power required to operate those stations 24/7...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Generally the entire petroleum process from drilling to refining is considered about 80% efficient. So pipeline losses would probably be only a small percentage of the 20% lost.
The 7% electricity transmission loss figure does not take into account the losses transporting the base fuel to the generating plants, just to be fair. I don't know what percentage it takes to transport coal and NG to a plant.
The 7% electricity transmission loss figure does not take into account the losses transporting the base fuel to the generating plants, just to be fair. I don't know what percentage it takes to transport coal and NG to a plant.
Last hurrah??? ...similar propaganda will be deployed..." You think this is new? Big Oil has been funding a massive misinformation campaign for decades. How do you think they got nearly half of Americans thinking global warming is a hoax? They've been attacking the EV for a long time and will do it stronger and more efficiently in the future.
Flip through almost any major publication to see who's paying for full page color ads. Big Oil, among others. And it goes way beyond those ads. How much more likely are those publications to print pro-oil material handed to them by industry puppets? Dare they risk losing huge ad revenue? They've funded almost entire "universities" to do research debunking global warming. They are the largest contributors to super-pacs, ultimately buying their tax breaks and more propaganda. Big Oil is very good at what they do: making money. You can't blame them - it's their job. It has required producing propaganda on a massive scale for decades. In fact it was the better part of a century ago when they first started spewing misinformation against EVs.
Here is a calculation for energy loss affecting natural gas energy production:
Interestingly, that same paper also says:
So despite the lower production inefficiencies for electricity generation, electric cars themselves are so much more efficient that they still beat the overall efficiency of the best gas powered cars (or hybrids) by around 2 to 1 or better...
Tesla White Paper said:
Interestingly, that same paper also says:
So despite the lower production inefficiencies for electricity generation, electric cars themselves are so much more efficient that they still beat the overall efficiency of the best gas powered cars (or hybrids) by around 2 to 1 or better...
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
I believe it's currently at ~70%, at least in CA circa 2000. That's excluding all the energy required for exploration/transportation/pumping. I imagine that it may be ~60%-65% including all of that.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I've never seen any references that low. I can't seem to find anything on the efficiency of the extraction process, but Updates to Petroleum Refining and Upstream Emissions shows a 91% refining efficiency using 2010 data:
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