BMW folks comments on Tesla

[ucmndd]

I am not sure why some users here try to convince me about taking a Tesla for long trips without proving a single point wherein the Tesla has more benefits for me than my other highway vehicles that also offer luxury trip experience.

You’re the one on a Tesla forum asking the questions.

Seems like everyone here has been pretty clear from the first page that a Tesla isn’t for you given your long distance travel requirements.

There are other EVs that would fit the bill if that’s what you’re looking for. Lucid comes to mind, or the nascent offerings from your preferred German brands.

Frankly I don’t think you’re going to be satisfied with a Tesla for an around town runabout either. You should pick another EV more aligned with your tastes and preferences. If your only use case is traveling near home, the availability of charging networks is a non-concern and you should stick with the familiar comforts of crystal knobs, massaging seats, and Corinthian leather with contrast stitching.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

You’re the one on a Tesla forum asking the questions.

Seems like everyone here has been pretty clear from the first page that a Tesla isn’t for you given your long distance travel requirements.

There are other EVs that would fit the bill if that’s what you’re looking for. Lucid comes to mind, or the nascent offerings from your preferred German brands.

Frankly I don’t think you’re going to be satisfied with a Tesla for an around town runabout either. You should pick another EV more aligned with your tastes and preferences. If your only use case is traveling near home, the availability of charging networks is a non-concern and you should stick with the familiar comforts of crystal knobs, massaging seats, and Corinthian leather with contrast stitching.

Thanks. Useful confirmation.

 

[OxBrew]

I think a 2021 S would be a better choice than new or a 2022.

The latter have yokes or wheels with no stalks. Just my preference, but drive a stalkless version before you even think about it.

Honestly, for around town, nothing matters except how much you like the car, looks, driving, features.

You'll be plugging in every night and it will be charged up every day, so range won't even matter.

For all new EV's, I'd plan on selling or trading 6 months before the battery warranty expires. All non Tesla EVs are still figuring them out, wait until they have 5-10 years of positive history before trusting any non Tesla EV battery out of full warranty.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

I think a 2021 S would be a better choice than new or a 2022.

The latter have yokes or wheels with no stalks. Just my preference, but drive a stalkless version before you even think about it.

Honestly, for around town, nothing matters except how much you like the car, looks, driving, features.

You'll be plugging in every night and it will be charged up every day, so range won't even matter.

For all new EV's, I'd plan on selling or trading 6 months before the battery warranty expires. All non Tesla EVs are still figuring them out, wait until they have 5-10 years of positive history before trusting any non Tesla EV battery out of full warranty.

No even this 2021 one does NOT have stalks. See photo below?

 

[dannycamps]

I am not sure why some users here try to convince me about taking a Tesla for long trips without proving a single point wherein the Tesla has more benefits for me than my other highway vehicles that also offer luxury trip experience.

I don't think anyone is trying to convince you. It's very clear that a Tesla will not suit your specific needs for long distance driving. I am not so sure any other EV will either especially given the infancy of the non-Tesla charging network at this point in time. As someone else said, perhaps a Lucid Air will scratch your luxury EV itch plus their top end model provides up to 500 miles of range. You very clearly said you desire creature comforts that just are not available in a Tesla.

Since we're discussing the topic, any disadvantages if I consider a pre-owned 2021 (refresh interior) Model S with 10K Miles, instead of searching for 2022? The one I see is offered for 76K miles and it has cream interior. What am I losing by passing on the 2022 in exchange to getting much cheaper 2021 with 10K miles?

The main difference is that the 2021 refresh Model S has a MCU with 8gb of RAM. In 2022, that was changed to 16gb which amounts to is the 2022 can run more demanding applications (e.g. Steam) whereas the 2021 cannot. They also added a swiveling screen so you can tilt the screen towards you or the passenger in the 2022.

Note that the refresh S and X do provide rear seat entertainment functionality in the form of a second screen that can play games and access video steaming services.

If the price difference is significant, I'd opt for the 2021 personally.

 

[bmah]

No even this 2021 one does NOT have stalks. See photo below?

Right, the 2021 Model S/X came with yokes and no stalks. They are different from the 2020 Model S/X, which had conventional steering wheels and turn/gear stalks. There might be some exceptions, I'm not quite sure. As you may know, Tesla has been known to make changes to cars in the middle of model "years", so I'm not sure when this transition happened, and there was a period of a few months in early 2021 during which no Model S/X were produced at all (the X didn't restart production until late 2021).

In a similar vein, my recollection about the RAM is in the MCU is that the change happened early during calendar year 2022, but it wasn't necessarily on a model year boundary.

Bruce.

EDIT: To stay marginally on-topic...our household currently has a mixture of two Teslas and a BMW 530e. I've only owned Teslas the past 8 years and my wife has only owned BMWs for the past 20. We drive each other's cars according to mood or mission, although the Teslas get the bulk of the road trip miles.

 

[Jayskywalker21]

I’d like to offer a prospective that may be different. I’ve driven/owned so many nice cars in my short life.. to list 2018 Infiniti Red sport Q50, 2016 Audi A7/S7/RS7(don’t ask why I’ve owned all 3 at some point) Mercedes S550 coupe, and A BMW M8. Going from all that to a used P100D I can confidently say this IS Luxury and so so different. It doesn’t need massaging seats. It’s an extremely comfortable ride, heated and cooled seats, the best tech IMO you can find(don’t think there’s a debate there) I also enjoy it’s navigation over having a CarPlay/android auto. The sound system especially for the newer models are the best in the game. It’s such a different vehicle from ICE it feels like a videogame at your finger tips. Charging from home, low maintenance, the panoramic roof. The interior is simplistic and the materials may not be as good as the cars I’ve name but overall I think it’s a great alternative. The speed is just so mind boggling. I truly believe this could also be a long term option for a ton of people and they won’t have to worry about too many big repair costs as the vehicle ages unlike the ICE cars I’ve name(some aren’t comparable) but if you’re going for a higher end sports version of any of bmw/Audi/Mercs I’m sure you’d be a lot more weary about buying after it gets to a certain point for miles compared to Tesla. I truly believe this is Luxury and after owning all those vehicles I can’t say that it isn’t

 

[Mullermn]

I find most ICE owners’ comments about EVs pretty comical. If you’ve owned and driven a Tesla and decided it’s not for you, that’s fair enough, but when people who haven’t had one start listing out the reasons why they’re terrible it’s like a school child telling you your car is rubbish because his bike is way way better, faster and has a kick stand and everything.

It’s just a different league. The stuff the ICE luxury brands are better at (and they are undoubtably better at some things) are yesterdays news compared to what the new generation of software driven EVs are good at.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

I find most ICE owners’ comments about EVs pretty comical. If you’ve owned and driven a Tesla and decided it’s not for you, that’s fair enough, but when people who haven’t had one start listing out the reasons why they’re terrible it’s like a school child telling you your car is rubbish because his bike is way way better, faster and has a kick stand and everything.

It’s just a different league. The stuff the ICE luxury brands are better at (and they are undoubtably better at some things) are yesterdays news compared to what the new generation of software driven EVs are good at.

Yeah but let's not forget there are some brands that do offer both nowadays (the "yesterday's news": The typical stuff that we used to find in ICE luxury brands which are far better than Tesla stuff) as well as good software driven EVs. Like I said, EQS SUV and EQS are under my radar too, and so as LUCID since it was mentioned above but I know nothing about LUCID. My only concern is, I don't see why I should invest 100K plus for a MS or MX, but yes for Model 3 and Model Y (that's a consideration). For 100K plus, there is no way this is fair and smart decision (for my case) unless I consider the i7, EQS, EQS SUV or LUCID because they offer at least some luxury in addition to the EV and software experience. I am not emotionally attached to Tesla or other ICU, am completely unbiased and all that is just based on observations and extensive research, rentals and also reading online and hearing from forum users over the past 4-5 months. I also have a deposit for the CyberTruck just to be on the line and see what happens in the future.

 

[zoomer0056]

Tesla or other ICU

Intensive Care Unit? Did you mean ICE for Internal Combustion Engine?

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Intensive Care Unit? Did you mean ICE for Internal Combustion Engine?

Not funny but rather silly. Adds zero value to the conversation. Will let moderators judge on your participation here.

 

[VT_EE]

Appreciate everyone's feedback.
Sounds like there is a general agreement that Tesla is not a Luxury car, and if that is what I really wanted, I should get a BMW or MBenz EV if luxury is more important to me that all other things (?).

As for Tesla, sounds like the main motivation is autonomous driving and charging stations? Those are good points, but for the record, my long trip vehicle will have to continue being a three row combustion engine SUV for my family, so charging station makes no different in my decision (I probably should have mentioned that from day 1 in my thread). That leaves me with, do I really value autonomous driving? The answer is yes honestly. Perhaps I should also familiarize myself with the auto-pilot in newer Benz or BMW (newest one I have on both brands is 2020) so non of them had the advanced drive assist as the 2023 model years. I expect Tesla to be better for in-town where I would be mostly using this car, while high-way driving is useless for me as I still have to use a three row SUV that I already have.

Renting a Tesla for one week sounds like a wise suggestion, but it is clear that I should forget about luxury.

Any issues with rattles and road noise though? How about leather quality? Speakers? I can get high end speakers option in other brands, what is the best I can get on a Tesla and how dies it compare to 3D Burmester or B&W 3D surround high-end systems? Those are things I consider to be (outside) the luxury discussion and rather being a (must-have) daily use features. I don't care about massage seats much as I know Tesla won't offer them and am okay with that as long as I get cooled and heated seats. Nice daily-drive in-town drive is what I want, that I can drive with conservative passion and love (am not a fast driver by the way).

Thanks for posting that entertaining BMW thread. It was pretty ironic so many posters were going on about "Tesla fanboys" when they were just as bad wrt BMW.

I personally like the modern-looking interior of Tesla vehicles. I can't stand vehicles with buttons everywhere, including on the steering wheel.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc might look nice in the cabin, but they are truly generations behind Tesla under the skin. You will not find another more advanced vehicle anywhere (minus some panel fitment). Watch some Munro tear down if you want to see the difference. As en engineer, I value packaging, performance, and innovation more than massaging seats and some other features that some people consider "luxury". It all depends what your priorities are. If an uber-cushy interior is your highest priority, then Tesla is not for you.

BTW - The sound systems in Teslas are excellent IMO (except for the standard range Model 3). You have to get any "luxury" brand's most expensive sound system to even compare.

 

[zoomer0056]

Not funny but rather silly. Adds zero value to the conversation. Will let moderators judge on your participation here.

That was a type-o on your part. Legacy autos are referred to as having ICE, Internal Combustion Engines. What were you referring to?

 

[CTruck_BMW]

Thanks for posting that entertaining BMW thread. It was pretty ironic so many posters were going on about "Tesla fanboys" when they were just as bad wrt BMW.

I personally like the modern-looking interior of Tesla vehicles. I can't stand vehicles with buttons everywhere, including on the steering wheel.

BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc might look nice in the cabin, but they are truly generations behind Tesla under the skin. You will not find another more advanced vehicle anywhere (minus some panel fitment). Watch some Munro tear down if you want to see the difference. As en engineer, I value packaging, performance, and innovation more than massaging seats and some other features that some people consider "luxury". It all depends what your priorities are. If an uber-cushy interior is your highest priority, then Tesla is not for you.

BTW - The sound systems in Teslas are excellent IMO (except for the standard range Model 3). You have to get any "luxury" brand's most expensive sound system to even compare.

Hmm, a bunch of arguments with zero facts behind them. Not sure what your definition of technology is, but if it’s means a large ipad screen where all the benefits are with zero functioning features around the cabin (and for others in the vehicle traveling with u) then good for u. My main interest in Tesla remains for city/kids/school and in-town trips based in all the feedback here. Nothing solid or scientific at all with regards to long trip and true multi-use vehicle that replaces Mbenz of BMW or Lucid (this has nothing to do with EV vs gas combustion vehicles but rather how basic Tesla is for a family traveling accident the country or 8+ trips). For that u need X7, Navigator, S-class or Escalade. Tesla feels like a naked baby in front of those true traveling vehicles.

 

[Mullermn]

Not sure what your definition of technology is, but if it’s means a large ipad screen where all the benefits are with zero functioning features around the cabin (and for others in the vehicle traveling with u) then good for u.

when people who haven’t had one start listing out the reasons why they’re terrible it’s like a school child telling you your car is rubbish because his bike is way way better

Like I said, you’re welcome to your 8 thousand buttons and clutter, the weird steering wheel joystick thing and software like a website from 1990. Nice trim and luxury aren’t worth going back to those things for me.

 

[s1rk]

Tesla feels like a naked baby in front of those true traveling vehicles.

You wouldn't know what it feels like unless you've actually tried distance driving in it.. the Turo advice should come in handy.

Personally, I dread the thought of driving anything 100+ miles without Autopilot.. I've been in my friend's BMW X3M Competition, and that thing yelled at him the moment his eyes deviated from the road. There's a different kind of comfort in knowing it will keep you pretty much centered on the road even in some pretty serious curves while cruising, but that's just me.

Maybe I'm just too basic but the Model S cabin is plenty comfortable for me... not like you're sitting on plastic seats.

 

[VT_EE]

Hmm, a bunch of arguments with zero facts behind them. Not sure what your definition of technology is, but if it’s means a large ipad screen where all the benefits are with zero functioning features around the cabin (and for others in the vehicle traveling with u) then good for u. My main interest in Tesla remains for city/kids/school and in-town trips based in all the feedback here. Nothing solid or scientific at all with regards to long trip and true multi-use vehicle that replaces Mbenz of BMW or Lucid (this has nothing to do with EV vs gas combustion vehicles but rather how basic Tesla is for a family traveling accident the country or 8+ trips). For that u need X7, Navigator, S-class or Escalade. Tesla feels like a naked baby in front of those true traveling vehicles.

Hmm, you obviously have a different definition of argumentative than I do. I see nothing in my post as argumentative.

I define technological leadership by the level of system integration and innovation in the complete package. Tesla is second to none in this regard. I have yet to see ANY automotive expert share a different opinion. BMW is still using fuses among other old-school tech if I'm not mistaken, and their EVs are pieced together using a slew of outsourced parts. Here are some great videos on all types of EVs if you are interested in technology that underpins these vehicles:

https://www.youtube.com/@MunroLive/videos

Apparently Toyota (aka Lexus) agrees in Tesla's tech leadership:

Toyota engineers call the Tesla Model Y a “work of art” – report

The Tesla Model Y has reportedly impressed Toyota’s engineering team, saying the electric SUV is “unbelievable” under the skin.

www.drive.com.au

And by the way, if you are looking for the best vehicle for long road trips with the family, you should get a minivan. They are not cool, but nothing is more comfortable for long road trips with more than 4 people. You won't get massaging seats, but everything else on your list is covered by a Toyota Sienna Platinum. Your 3rd-row passengers will thank you.

 

[VT_EE]

Are you seriously saying you cannot believe a company would send out an unfinished product on a Tesla forum?

You realize there are plenty of owners that don’t have parking sensors right now, correct?

Missing safety features vs. missing a few cubic feet of storage in a place most people never use? Tough argument to make.

That would be me. Still waiting for that neural net update to give me parking sensor functionality. At least I won't have to go to the dealer for the update when it comes out next year.

 

[CTruck_BMW]

You wouldn't know what it feels like unless you've actually tried distance driving in it.. the Turo advice should come in handy.

Personally, I dread the thought of driving anything 100+ miles without Autopilot.. I've been in my friend's BMW X3M Competition, and that thing yelled at him the moment his eyes deviated from the road. There's a different kind of comfort in knowing it will keep you pretty much centered on the road even in some pretty serious curves while cruising, but that's just me.

Maybe I'm just too basic but the Model S cabin is plenty comfortable for me... not like you're sitting on plastic seats.

Yeah X3 does not have BMW hands free highway drive assist. It due for a refresh now so that’s why, and it's one of the last ones to get the refresh being a low tier vehicle. The new BMW full hands free driving would have driven 100% the distance no issues. X3 is 5-6 levels lower than X4, X5, X7, X7 and XM, that would have made your experience differnet if it was one of those new ones with the new drive assist (Hands Free Highway Drive Assist)

 

[CTruck_BMW]

when people who haven’t had one start listing out the reasons why they’re terrible it’s like a school child telling you your car is rubbish because his bike is way way better

Like I said, you’re welcome to your 8 thousand buttons and clutter, the weird steering wheel joystick thing and software like a website from 1990. Nice trim and luxury aren’t worth going back to those things for me.

8 thousand ls buttons? Hmm.. as I expected, some Tesla owners live in their own world and have no idea how car other companies have gone since they got into Tesla. Count number of “useless” buttons in the new X5 or the new X6 or the 2023 X7 with the new iDrive 8 and get back to me.
After-all, 99.99% of my time driving I spent behind the wheels without touching any buttons (other than music forward-backward or Sound level which are also on the steering or via a knob if I choose to or even vi gesture (which I truly use always and it’s functional with zero distraction from the road).