BMW i3

[David99]

What good makes efficiency if it still has miserable range?
I will praise efficiency when the range is good. If range is poor, I could not care less about efficiency.

Efficiency is very important. It's means that you need less energy to do the same distance driving. It means you need less batteries, it means less pollution, it means faster charging. The less energy used, the less pollution into the air. As of now the majority of electricity is still produced by burning fossil materials.

As awesome as the Model S is, out of all EVs on the market, it is the least efficient. It uses the most amount of energy per mile. Just because we drive electric doesn't mean we can be wasteful.

Here are the EPA ratings for city/highway

Model S: 88/90
Smart: 122/93
Leaf: 126/101
Focus: 110/99
Spark: 119/109
i3: 138/111
Volt: 98 (electric only, combined)


The i3 is the best, the Model S is the worst. Even the Chevy Volt, that has to drag around a full size gas engine, is more efficient.

 

[EVNow]

As awesome as the Model S is, out of all EVs on the market, it is the least efficient. It uses the most amount of energy per mile. Just because we drive electric doesn't mean we can be wasteful.

Here are the EPA ratings for city/highway

Model S: 88/90
Smart: 122/93
Leaf: 126/101
Focus: 110/99
Spark: 119/109
i3: 138/111
Volt: 98 (electric only, combined)


The i3 is the best, the Model S is the worst. Even the Chevy Volt, that has to drag around a full size gas engine, is more efficient.

Have to remember i3 is a small car - and Model S is large. We could say smart is bad - since it is smaller than Leaf with worse efficiency.

Look at it this way. It has about 3 kWh less battery and gets 3 miles less range compared to Leaf. In other words, BMW saved 2kWh or 10% battery - through carbon fibers and being smaller.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

or take 3 trips in an I3 to carry as much junk from the hardware store as in an S....
efficiency be damned

smaller lighter cars are more efficient...


safety wise? I3 vs S
think you'd be crushed in an I3 by a semi vs an S hit by a semi (or similar sized Pickup truck in Humboldt)

 

[WarpedOne]

Efficiency esmiciency...

I conserve energy by not driving when not necessary and by combining multiple task into single drive. That is how one really conserves energy.
I drive to get somewhere and get the job done, not just to "use less energy".

What matters is range and performance. That is what I experience as an end user and that is what gets the job done.

Every miserable EV brags about efficiency but it still is a miserable punishment car unsuitable for being "only car".
I can drive farther with my bicycle! And more efficient!

You just can't beat this efficiency:

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

^^ are those all of the BMW avtive E's?

 

[darthvdr]

Looks are such a subjective thing, but I personally like the wrap you did and think looks very nice. I'm a Model S owner, I lease a Leaf and will be taking delivery of my i3 in about a week. I'm actually quite excited to get the car (Just downloaded the iPhone manual for the car today). The thing that BMW is ahead of Tesla right now are all the driver assist technologies. I look forward to seeing how the Adaptive stop/go cruise control works for my commute (Seattle area freeway traffic can be the brutal stop and go type, so it should be a good test). Also I'm interested to see how the other park assist tech works as well. Thanks for posting all your great comments Tom (especially in the i3 Facebook group), I have appreciated them as I've been waiting for my i3.

The i3 is supposed to be my bridge car until the Model X comes out (my wife currently drives the S and carts the kids around in it and I drive the Leaf and will drive the i3 as the Leaf lease expires in about a month), but if I really enjoy the i3 there is a possibility I may give up my Signature X reservation and wait for Tesla to iterate on the X over a couple of years and they buy one. Part of that will depend on just how much better the X has developed since the prototype version Tesla has been displaying!

Please post a comprehensive review when you get your i3. My daughter in-law is considering it, so I'd like to hear more about this car from actual owners.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Efficiency is very important. It's means that you need less energy to do the same distance driving. It means you need less batteries, it means less pollution, it means faster charging. The less energy used, the less pollution into the air. As of now the majority of electricity is still produced by burning fossil materials.

I think the main point is efficiency doesn't matter to the end consumer if it doesn't meet their other requirements. For example, many are opting for the less efficient i3 REx because the i3 doesn't meet their range needs.

As awesome as the Model S is, out of all EVs on the market, it is the least efficient. It uses the most amount of energy per mile. Just because we drive electric doesn't mean we can be wasteful.

Here are the EPA ratings for city/highway

Model S: 88/90
Smart: 122/93
Leaf: 126/101
Focus: 110/99
Spark: 119/109
i3: 138/111
Volt: 98 (electric only, combined)


The i3 is the best, the Model S is the worst. Even the Chevy Volt, that has to drag around a full size gas engine, is more efficient.

Apples to oranges. The Model S is the only large size vehicle out of the bunch, and also blows all the rest away in terms of performance. The rest are all compact/subcompacts/mini-compacts (the Leaf is the only special case, it has a compact exterior, but a mid-size interior).

 

[WarpedOne]

^^ are those all of the BMW avtive E's?

All 8 crushed cars on that truck were once perfectly good BMW ActiveE cars. Where that pics was taken, there was another truck with 8 other crashed ActiveEs.

In case, it was missed: Crushed BMW ActiveE Test Fleet Headed For Scrapyard

 

[wraithnot]

. . . As awesome as the Model S is, out of all EVs on the market, it is the least efficient. It uses the most amount of energy per mile. Just because we drive electric doesn't mean we can be wasteful. . .

That's only true for the 85 kWh Model S (88 city / 90 highway). The 60 kWh Model S gets 94 city / 97 highway (Gas Mileage of 2013 Tesla Model S). The highway rating of 97 MPGe is better than the Smart EV and much closer to the LEAF and Focus.

Still less efficient than the Spark or the i3, but much more practical for long drives and hauling people and/or stuff around. Efficiency doesn't really matter when the EV is sitting in the garage because the family chose their conventional car for a weekend trip, an IKEA furniture run, etc.

 

[Blurry_Eyed]

Please post a comprehensive review when you get your i3. My daughter in-law is considering it, so I'd like to hear more about this car from actual owners.

Will do. I'll try to be balanced and fair with my assessment. I'll also try to benchmark it against recent cars that I've owned or still own (Leaf, Model S, 2010 Prius, 1st Gen Prius).

 

[David99]

My point is that BMW did an amazing job with the i3 which doesn't have the best aerodynamics and still takes the top spot in efficiency. They deserve credit for it. Saying efficiency is meaningless is nonsense.

 

[dhrivnak]

My point is that BMW did an amazing job with the i3 which doesn't have the best aerodynamics and still takes the top spot in efficiency. They deserve credit for it. Saying efficiency is meaningless is nonsense.

+1 Yes for me efficiency is very important which is why I like the Roadster and why I looked at the I3.

 

[dsm363]

The Model S is also efficient for a very large car. Of course efficiency is important but if being super efficient for $60k only gets you 80 miles of range that is not as impressive. Still better than not being efficient and wasting energy.

BMW did some nice things with the weight reduction. Hope efforts like this spread across their ICE lineup too.

 

[jerry33]

Here are the EPA ratings for city/highway

Model S: 88/90
Smart: 122/93
Leaf: 126/101
Focus: 110/99
Spark: 119/109
i3: 138/111
Volt: 98 (electric only, combined)


The i3 is the best, the Model S is the worst. Even the Chevy Volt, that has to drag around a full size gas engine, is more efficient.

1. Smaller cars tend to be more efficient than larger cars.

2. EPA ratings are not real life. If I ever got only 88 eMPG (my build sticker says 89) and there wasn't a few inches of slush on the road, a 50 mph headwind, or both, I'd pack it in. It's cost me about $650 for 25k miles plus. Assuming gas is $3.50/gal that's about 135 eMPG.

3. It doesn't matter how efficient the car is, if you don't have enough range to make it to your destination in the majority of trips, it's going to be very inconvenient and will get very old very quickly. Efficiency is one thing--a punishment car is another.

 

[David99]

1. Smaller cars tend to be more efficient than larger cars.

That's why a lot of people like to buy small cars, especially in countries where energy prices are higher than the US. There are many other advantages of small cars.

2. EPA ratings are not real life. If I ever got only 88 eMPG (my build sticker says 89) ...

They are off, but so are the values for all cars. Comparing is perfectly valid because the relative difference is unchanged.

3. It doesn't matter how efficient the car is, if you don't have enough range to make it to your destination in the majority of trips, it's going to be very inconvenient and will get very old very quickly.

Long range that comes at almost twice the price and lower efficiency is a complete waste for the daily commuters that account for 80% of all traffic on our roads. The 'majority of trips', as you say, is way within the range of the Leaf/i3/Spark/... If it wasn't, they would not have sold any of those. Don't assume your own needs are 'the majority of cases'. The average car in the US drives about 40 miles every day. That's a fact.

 

[ecarfan]

The 'majority of trips', as you say, is way within the range of the Leaf/i3/Spark/... If it wasn't, they would not have sold any of those. Don't assume your own needs are 'the majority of cases'. The average car in the US drives about 40 miles every day. That's a fact.

That is true, but then why are EVs like the Leaf/i3/Spark/etc. such a tiny percentage of the new car market? The Leaf is the biggest seller but it's not doing very well, far below what Nissan hoped for.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The average car in the US drives about 40 miles every day. That's a fact.

The average doesn't matter. What matters is the longest trip they travel in a week (or in a month depending on how generous you are). You can throw out the annual/bi-annual road trips, but most people want their car to cover weekend, biweekly, or monthly trips.

I think the reason why the i3 REx is popular is because the regular i3's range simply isn't enough for its segment.

If a poll was taken about whether people would rather trade off the i3's efficiency for 100+ miles of EPA range, I think there would be a lot of hand raisers.

I think the problem is that 80 miles of EPA range is simply not the "enough" point for many people. That's why there's excitement about Gen III and the rumored higher range Leaf in development.

 

[woof]

Please post a comprehensive review when you get your i3. My daughter in-law is considering it, so I'd like to hear more about this car from actual owners.

Tom posts great stuff on his blog:
The Electric BMW i3

Also, head on over to the i3 forum, as the Tesla Motors Club forum isn't the easiest place to discuss the i3.
BMW i3 Forum - BMW i3 Forum for the i3 Electric Vehicle

 

[dhrivnak]

That is true, but then why are EVs like the Leaf/i3/Spark/etc. such a tiny percentage of the new car market? The Leaf is the biggest seller but it's not doing very well, far below what Nissan hoped for.

But the Leaf, and I3 in it's first month outsells the Model S. Now I fully agree the Model S is a great car. But it does not meet every need and in fact will not meet our needs so we have to pass on it.

 

[woof]

What I find interesting is that even though the i3's EPA/NEDC numbers are very close to the LEAF's, Tom, myself, and others are easily getting 100 miles and more out of a charge. Yes, it's perfect EV weather at the moment, but if I recall from the LEAF forums 100 miles was a milestone that very few achieved, and those that did worked very hard to do it.

The i3 really likes slower speeds--I've gotten 6 miles/kWh over a 50 mile trip on 40 MPH back roads. I get 5 miles/kWh between the same endpoints but using the highway instead with much of that being at 65 MPH. This is probably due to the aerodynamics favoring the slower speeds.

I'm becoming cautiously optimistic that the i3 really will get the advertised 80-100 miles, with the 80 in cold weather, and the 100 being perfect conditions. Time will tell.