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BMW i3
- Thread starter gregincal
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- Electric Vehicles
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
fengshui
Member
Which is exactly why I leased a Spark EV. It loses some of the driver assistance features and luxury, but is substantially cheaper. That said, if I can pick up a used i3 when my Spark EV lease is over, that would be awesome.
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
The Spark EV really does look to be quite a good value. I have yet to hear of anyone who has driven one and not liked it. Even if it is too small for my needs (for that matter, I have discovered that my Volt is too) I really hope they do make it available nation wide, as I think it would actually end up being a pretty popular little car.
Toyota Rav4 EV Forum View topic - Heater not heating..
Chevy Spark EV Forum Search has numerous complaints. His heater failed (Chevy Spark EV Forum View topic - AC and now Heater have gone on capricious AWOL) but also complains about random stuff that are actually good features on GM cars (Chevy Spark EV Forum View topic - Suggestions: Dear Chevrolet) and things he feels are "wrong" (Chevy Spark EV Forum sound upon takeoff - anyone same problem? and Chevy Spark EV Forum View topic - Triple Honk Always).
FWIW, I'm NOT a fan of GM but I actually like their feature of the stereo staying on after turning off the car until you open the door. And, just because it doesn't follow Japanese car conventions doesn't make it "wrong".
IMHO, two biggest drawbacks of the Spark EV are the slow 3.3 kW OBC when all others come with or have a 6+ kW OBC available and the option for a currently near useless Frankenplug inlet for DC FCs that virtually don't exist. That's a double whammy. 6 kW OBC can help a lot in replenishing charge quickly vs. a 3.3 kW OBC (at least from looking at the charge time estimates on my Leaf and looking at emails from Chargepoint).
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
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Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
I completey agree. There is no excuse for a EV to use 3.3. Anything less than the 10 kW charger in a Model S or RAV 4 EV is insufficient. Tesla hit the nail on the head on charger size with the Model S, powerful enough to give a meaningful charge in an hour, small enough to still fit in most homes electrical panels.
ModelS8794
Member
thanks for the video. Does it have a low center of gravity? Looked a bit scary in the hard turns, like it was getting ready to topple. I have zero track experience though, so maybe all cars look like that at that level of performance?
Maybe different in person, but I find the form factor really unattractive..
Maybe different in person, but I find the form factor really unattractive..
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Title:Review From the Track: BMW i3 Gets Driven to the Limit by Pro Driver – I Ride Shotgun (w/video)
Link: Review From the Track: BMW i3 Gets Driven to the Limit by Pro Driver I Ride Shotgun (w/video)
Pretty impressive article.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's in stark contrast to what most auto magazines have been saying (that the handling is subpar, esp. for a BMW). I'll await the skidpad and slalom numbers before making judgement on the handling (500e is the non-Tesla leader right now with .79 skidpad and 65.1mph slalom).
2011 Leaf gets .78 skidpad and 63mph slalom.
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011/road-test3.html
Insufficient?
Public L2 J1772 charging stations that deliver more than 30 amps at 208 or 240 volts are rare, as are home EVSE that do that.
At my work we have some of the stations at Purchase EV Charging Stations - ChargePoint and they only output 30 amps at 240 volts max. Our stations run at 208 volts (per a Chargepoint tech who was on site to do some work) and the couple model S that charge pull ~6.2 kW, from the displays on the EVSE. My '13 Leaf typically pulls ~5.8 to 6.0 kW on those.
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Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
The 6.6 in the newer leaf's is MUCH better than the 3.3. Right now public chargers higher than 6.6 are rare, but most EV owners will put the highest capacity EVSE in their garage that their car support. That extra 8-10 miles of range per hour that the 10 kWh gives can make a big difference, particularly on a larger battery EV, when you are trying to go from almost empty to all they way charged at home.
Re: your bolded statement? Really? You're saying that folks w/6.6 kW OBC or lower will put in 40 amp 240 volt EVSEs, if their garage will support it? I think that's not that likely as those tend to be rare and many EV folks are new and are confused about EVSEs, on-board chargers, amps, volts, watts, etc.
I ran into Toyota Rav4 EV Forum View topic - Free charging station form EV Soltutions when I qualified for a "free" EVSE thru CEC Program Overview : EV Solutions. Since it's Aerovironment, my assumption is that one of the units at Electric Vehicle Home Charging Stations : EV Solutions which are 30 amp EVSEs, requiring a 40 amp breaker, for which I couldn't even have done w/o $5K of work.
FWIW, companies like Nissan, BMW, Ford, Fiat, etc. (News & Events: Press Releases: EV Charging - AeroVironment, Inc.) have signed up w/Aerovironment and they only have a 30 amp @ 208/240 volt EVSE. There's just a different sticker on the front depending on the car brand.
Example of a rare 40 amp @ 240 volt EVSE is RAV4 EV > Charging Options, which requires a 50 amp breaker.
Off the top of my head, the ONLY currently sold EVs or PHEVs w/a 10 kW or greater OBC are the Model S and (CA compliance car) Rav4 EV. I'd be curious to know if there are any others (list of PHEVs and EVs under in the plug-in section of November 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com).
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Admit I didn't watch the video yet, but color me skeptical. Quotes like: "This just might be the best braking street legal BMW out there" are sheer hyperbole, based on plain physics -- skinny tires have a smaller contact patch, and the contact patch to weight ratio has to be smaller for this car than most other BMWs.
Also not a single piece of criticism, constructive or otherwise, appears in the article. Seems pretty clear they want to stay on BMW's good side...
Yes. A professional driver can make a passenger green around the gills in damn near anything--witness the "Camry Experience" commercials, or whatever those are called.
I have no qualms with the i3 but two things, the pig faced chubby design and the smallish size of the battery pack.
I am sure it rides pretty good but its no Tesla, just hope there is a market for this vehicle too because that will keep Bmw working on ev's.
I am sure it rides pretty good but its no Tesla, just hope there is a market for this vehicle too because that will keep Bmw working on ev's.
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
At least in my region, every leaf owner I have talked to has the fastest charger their car supports in their jobs. In my garage, even though I only drive a Volt with a tiny 3.3 charger, I have a 14-50 outlet on a 50 amp breakers supplying my EVSE. I think as more 40 amp+ evse's come onto the market, people will naturally gravitate to them. Most (not all) EV owners are forward thinkers, and will want to future proof to some extent if practical. I really think Tesla has it figured out using the 14-50 outlet, and at some point in the future, EVSE's will simply standardize on plugging into this outlet. As Tesla power train equipped vehicles start to take over more and more of the EV market share, EVSE manufactures will start to get with the program. If you look at some of the startup EVSE's like the Juicebox, they already support 10+ kW charging.
TonyWilliams
Active Member
The author is a "marketing professional" and quite closely wed to BMW (leased the original MiniE and ActiveE) who has a blog dedicated to electric BMW stuff. He is not going to say anything to lose favor with BMW that gave him access to the car with a race car driver in the first place. I'm with you; no way is a skinny tire city car a great race car. If that were true, why are race teams not adopting skinny tires on boxy and ugly cars?
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The future Daimler Mercedes Benz B-Class ED will carry the 40 amp Tesla charger, too.
TonyWilliams,
I know the author @cneff and I believe that he has conveyed that this was his first time in a track if not on the article at least in some communications that I have had with him. I don't think that you should besmirch Chris's communication as you seem to imply in your statements. Point of clarification, Chris was actually not a lessor of the Mini E, his employer, at the time, was and that's how he got into it.
I drive an Active E, Model S, and Roadster and I can tell you that the regen on ALL three cars are comparable to each other. Which is one of the primary reasons that we bought the Teslas (in addition to the range, of course.)
In the interest of full disclosure, I started MY EV blog with the Active E in focus, but am not taking on more Tesla content and the like as my experience with our Teslas grow (just picked up the Roadster in September and the S in November). So, just because my original blog is Active E focused had more to do with what I was driving than being a BMW "advocate". I am a rEVolutionary who drives the cars that I drive because those are the vehicles that speak to me. However, as I often advocate to most non EV drivers, just get in and drive an EV, if you can't afford a Tesla, get something else.
I drove the i3 in Los Angeles for a total of ten minutes and was in the car as a passenger for another thirty minutes during the "Electronaut" event. BMW Electrics have regen that is awesome. They have been the only other EVs to have regen similar to Tesla. In fact, I prefer the BMW Regen even better than Teslas. The Tires obviously have a lot to do with the braking. However, the Regen does a LOT of the work in an i3 (or Active E). Are we all prone to hyperbole, some more than others. Do I like the i3, I do... As I have stated in the past, the aesthetics are where it fails me, but the rest is quite good. As I often mention to my Model S friends, I love my S, just hoped it was smaller. It's larger than any of my other cars at the moment and it barely fits in my garage.
The i3's motor and balance is awesome. I assume that after the two years of testing on us, that BMW has solved the spline problem and I can tell you that with over 49,000 miles on the same motor and batteries as the i3 in my Active E, it still performs great. I did notice that I have had some noticeable capacity loss in my Active E, but that is to be expected with most EVs. Our Roadster in the past three months has gone from close to 185 Ideal Miles to 178 Ideal Miles when charging at 30A most of that time and upgraded to 40A lately. The higher the amperage of charging it seems like the lower the Ideal Miles.
The BMW ActiveE (thus projecting to the i3) seem to handle vampire loss better than either of my Teslas. When I leave for three days in 5.8, I experienced about 6-8 miles of loss when I don't wake up the car (Model S), I leave the Roadster plug in, but see activity of it charging every now and then. Whereas the Active E is at the same battery state and range.
So, it's a matter of taste. Chris obviously enjoyed his ride. I, for one, am jealous that he got the opportunity, but would not have spent ten hours being filmed, etc. for this. In fact, BMW i should be applauded for finally jumping in feet first into the EV world. We, the consumers, can only benefit when competition drives Tesla to more affordable cars and to force them to keep a lead.
As for the "Hot Lap Video". It's a far cry from the other crap that the other traditional EV/PHEV advertisements out there. Let's show the world that EVs ARE performance vehicles. Not everyone can afford a Tesla Model S, Model X, or Roadster. However, let's get them into other EVs. All EVs, including the Mitsubishi iMiEV are fun to drive because of the torque. All EVs are cheaper to operate than its ICE counterparts. So, with a video that shows off that the car can perform, why not give them kudos than jeers. Tesla does not currently need to advertise. BMW does, and at least it's a lot more interesting than stupid Polar Bears hugging drivers.
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