BMW i3

[stopcrazypp]

The looks were unfortunate ("love it or hate it" looks), but the main disappointment for me was the battery size / range. My criteria is making the 90 mile trip from SF to Sacramento at normal traffic speeds (it's all highway with speeds typically 65-70mph in the middle lane) without stopping. The Active E was actually able to do that. The i3 sadly can't (it's highly city optimized: at highway speeds the range plummets, even though with city speeds it can get excellent range perhaps exceeding 100 miles).

Plus, a compact/mid-size 5 seater (like the Leaf) would be more practical.

 

[Tedkidd]

The looks were unfortunate ("love it or hate it" looks), but the main disappointment for me was the battery size / range. My criteria is making the 90 mile trip from SF to Sacramento at normal traffic speeds (it's all highway with speeds typically 65-70mph in the middle lane) without stopping. The Active E was actually able to do that. The i3 sadly can't (it's highly city optimized: at highway speeds the range plummets, even though with city speeds it can get excellent range perhaps exceeding 100 miles).

Plus, a compact/mid-size 5 seater (like the Leaf) would be more practical.

I think the Mercedes fits that bill.
Really like it!!

drove BMW I3 and Mercedes B. liked 'em both!

 

[hingisfan]

I'm not sure what the price is in Canada, but a maxed out i3 Rex in the US is $56,050 compared to $71,070 for the base Model S, both excluding rebates or tax credits. $15,000 is still a significant difference, not to mention the cost if you were to add leather, navigation, parking sensors, and features not even available on the Model S such as adaptive cruise control. If you stick to the all-electric i3, the gap is closer to $19,000. They are truly different cars for different markets, and only share the fact they are electric.

I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I would pony up the 15k in a heartbeat to get into a Model S over the i3.
Also, factor in the gas and extra maintenance of the i3 REX over 10-12 years and it's much less difference.

 

[dsm363]

The back seats are basically for smaller adults and storage only. Anyone over 5'8" or so will not be super comfortable back there. Similar issue in Model S but you have more leg room there.

 

[ecarfan]

The Model S rear seats will accommodate adults up to 6 feet comfortably, in my opinion.

 

[AEdennis]

The Model S rear seats will accommodate adults up to 6 feet comfortably, in my opinion.

I'm closer to 5 1/2 feet than six feet, and I have a hard time in the back (aside from wanting to drive my own car) on non-Pano roof Model S. It's the reason why I added the Pano (to accomodate my really tall brother-in-laws).

That being said, the i3 is also tight in the back, but I didn't really plan on carrying too many people in the back. (which is why the i3 Coupe was more interesting).

 

[Tedkidd]

I'm closer to 5 1/2 feet than six feet, and I have a hard time in the back (aside from wanting to drive my own car) on non-Pano roof Model S. It's the reason why I added the Pano (to accomodate my really tall brother-in-laws).

That being said, the i3 is also tight in the back, but I didn't really plan on carrying too many people in the back. (which is why the i3 Coupe was more interesting).

+1. I'm 6' (long torso) and can't sit comfortably in the back with pano, won't sit in the back non-pano.

This guy is 6' 5":

http://bit.ly/BMWi3testdrivevid

The Mercedes has plenty of room for me. Here's a picture of Debbie who is about 5' 7":

#throughglass

 

[tommolog]

Been meaning to ask this of @surfingslovak, @AEdennis, @woof and @tommolog for a while: would you have preferred the i3 to be packaged in an ActiveE-like body rather than what it has ended up being? To restate that, all other things being equal, would you have preferred a BMW EV to look like its 1-series / 3-series siblings?

My wife has missed her 325i - that I swapped for a Mini 6 years ago - and would have switched to a BMW EV in a heartbeat had it not been for the i3's looks. We also got on that 700 electronaut list for the ActiveE before we decided to drop off to see our Model S reservation through. We'd have loved to take a 90-100 mile range in a BMW 1 - let alone a 4-door BMW 3 - packaging at this point for our second car and my wife's minuscule commute... We'd just have to wait for the Model 3 instead, I guess.

Sorry for the late reply, been crazy busy lately. I flat out wouldn't have bought a 1-Series EV. I was pretty much done with the ActiveE when the program ended. The interior was way too small, the back seats were just about unusable and what is normally a small trunk was cut in half by the power electronics. It was electric, it looked cool and drove nice, but the functionality was just not acceptable for me.

I'm not in love with the i3's looks, but I definitely don't hate it. As Woof and others have noted it does look better in person, but it's still not a beauty queen. However it offers soo much more utility than the ActiveE 1-Series did. The interior is more spacious, the back seats have more room and are easy to get in and out of and the hatch has probably triple the cargo capacity, if not more. I use my car to run errands and pick up supplies for my business and I'm so happy I have the i3 now as the ActiveE made it very difficult to do anything other than drive myself around. Plus the interior is much nicer although the ActiveE did have a pretty nice interior itself. I like the open, modern look of the i3's cabin. I'm not even getting into the i3 being faster and offering more options, since you didn't want us to consider that here.

 

[VolkerP]

There was an EV presentation meeting of German car manufacturers with a discussion on stage. All the company reps patted their shoulders, claimed that they now "got EVs" with such compelling offerings like BMW i3, VW e-up and e-Golf, Audi A3 e-Tron (not even a BEV), Daimler B-class E-cell etc. One question from the crowd left them gasping for air: "why don't you offer different battery sizes?"
:cursing:

 

[AEdennis]

My Electronaut Edition i3 finally made it to the dealership... And, like LeBron James, we've made a decision... Tom M called it, but it really was at 5% uintil this past weekend, but I had to see the one I configured be at the dealership before I made my call.

I miss my Active E.

 

[JST]

My Electronaut Edition i3 finally made it to the dealership... And, like LeBron James, we've made a decision... Tom M called it, but it really was at 5% uintil this past weekend, but I had to see the one I configured be at the dealership before I made my call.

I miss my Active E.

No AM radio? How bizarre.

 

[Aury]

I've noticed that the looks depend a lot on the color. Some people like the shape, some want a more unified shape.

The orange and blue editions have the distinct shape, the black edition has the unified look, I think it looks way better in black to be honest.

The black edition is simply one of the color options, but I don't see it that often, I don't know why, maybe my taste is different or maybe it is more because the dealers promote certain colors, the cost is the same, so I don't know.

 

[Tedkidd]

Oooo, that IS a good color!

 

[tommolog]

That actually isn't black, it's a dark grey called Laurel Grey and it's the color of my i3 before I wrapped it. I wrapped it to have some fun and make it a color that nobody else had while seeing what the car would look like with the hood the same color as the body and the rear window dip "softened". Here are before and after pics:

 

[Aury]

oh nice job, looks sweet in red

 

[brianman]

@tommolog - Did you also tint the front (side) windows or is that my imagination?

 

[Seattle]

The main problem I have with the i3 is the silly 2.x gallon gas tank, limited so they qualify for the California "more ev miles than gas miles" scenario. If they just fixed that car by adding a regular 10 gallon gas tank, it would be so much better. And fixing the front would be nice, but its really the small gas thank that ruins it.

If they increased the gas tank size, I'd at least respect them. As it is, they just made the wrong tradeoff. I really want a car to come out and push Teslas to be better - that's the way to better vehicles. For example, it wouldn't hurt if a decent competitor came along that was a little cheaper than the M.S.

 

[Saghost]

The main problem I have with the i3 is the silly 2.x gallon gas tank, limited so they qualify for the California "more ev miles than gas miles" scenario. If they just fixed that car by adding a regular 10 gallon gas tank, it would be so much better. And fixing the front would be nice, but its really the small gas thank that ruins it.

Absolutely agree. If they took the space from that silly miniature Frunk of theirs and used it to expand the gas tank, the could put an 8 gallon tank in. With that and more flexible programming/options for when to run the REx (and preferably somewhat less out there looks and a better Cd,) the i3 REx becomes serious competition for the Volt, with more power and much more electric range for somewhat more money.

Two gallons just aren't enough to do anything useful, and the CARB mandated limitations on engine use make it likely to be very frustrating to drive on gas anyway.
Walter

 

[Aury]

The i5 is supposedly the family sedan, or maybe coupe version of the i3.

The thing is, I don't think it's going to be a pure EV, I think it's going to be a hybrid. It's not so much that BMW or Audi or Porsche or <fill in whatever brand> can't make a larger EV, they have massive research budgets, they can...........it's that they don't want to.

Audi said recently that they don't see the need for EV yet until the problem with range (he meant energy density more so) is fixed. Then there's the margins, I don't think the margins are that high for large automakers to scale up EV.

So Audi is making hybrids.

So why a full EV i3 then, well I think because BMW can bring the weight down with the carbon shell, and they don't have to employ a huge battery, and they probably have half decent margins.

It's not unwillingless to creat large full EV, it's more...uhm...differences of opinion on the business model.

I think people sometimes underestimate that many car companies work together, the stance "Hybrid > full EV for large cars" is a general consensus for the European auto makers it seems, I don't think you'll see a large full EV in the near future from either BMW or other brands outside of Tesla and a few others, unless something drastically increases the energy density for batteries.

- - - Updated - - -

The main problem I have with the i3 is the silly 2.x gallon gas tank, limited so they qualify for the California "more ev miles than gas miles" scenario.

I think it's 2 things. They could make the tank larger, but it would increase weight. The i3 range is just about right for a city car, and that has a lot to do with the carbon fiber and the weight reductions. If you start adding larger gas tanks or larger engines, it all adds up quickly, it would impact the range of the EV motor. Sure, it would increase the total range, but the EV range would be impacted negatively, I think at least.

- - - Updated - - -

Two gallons just aren't enough to do anything usefu

It's not, it's more an emergency add on. Like if you're on vacation with your car in an area that has not enough charging stations, or let's say you're on the side of the road and your battery is out of energy, someone can fill you up easily, it's a practicality thing more so than...a way of driving. Well, at least for the i3.

- - - Updated - - -

Two gallons just aren't enough to do anything usefu

It's not, it's more an emergency add on. Like if you're on vacation with your car in an area that has not enough charging stations, or let's say you're on the side of the road and your battery is out of energy, someone can fill you up easily, it's a practicality thing more so than...a way of driving. Well, at least for the i3.

 

[dsm363]

The point of adding a range extender is to add range. Having a bigger tank would make it a more useful single use car instead of just a commuter car.