Brake failed and almost crashed

[holeydonut]

If the service department confirms that it was an actual brake failure and not a user error, please consider reporting the issue to NHTSA at safercar.gov.

I agree a valid complaint should be filed with NHTSA if there was a brake failure.

But I disagree that “operator error” events should preclude being logged. Back when GM had ignition turning off/failing on vehicles in motion, sometimes the service shop would say the issue was “operator error” because the user had too many keys on their fob.

While I can understand why having 20 keys on a fob is the owners fault, I also understand that a owner may not realize they did an error… and unintended errors aren’t supposed to cause a car to shut off or brakes to stop working. Edit, with the GM thing, sometimes the airbag would fail to deploy as well, which compounded how terrible the event really was.

TL;DR if the operator believes something was wrong, they should still file a NHTSA complaint even if some attribute the event on operator error.

 

[KenC]

Sounds like a brake failure, line or cylinder, which is not specific to a Model 3, as failures happen to every car ever mfr'd.

 

[freeAgent]

Do you park your car in the same place all the time? I'd check to see if there's brake fluid on the ground there. This seems to me like it was probably a leak in the brake lines for some reason or another.

 

[Rippin1Gear]

Let’s just hope it was like a rodent that ate through a brake hose I have a feeling.
Scary incident and glad no one was injured.

 

[pnwadventures]

I am always skeptical of posts like this especially when (like this poster) they joined TMC basically to make this post (OP is a TMC member since "jul 18th" showing right under their name, not through any moderator portals or anything)

2nd.

OP: sounds awful, glad everyone is okay. Please share a copy of the SC diagnosis here when it’s complete.

 

[jjrandorin]

Let me confirm something, as it relates to my own comment above in this thread:

• I am not saying in the slightest "its not possible" for this to have happened
• I am not trying to specifically discredit the OP of this thread.

My only point was, I have seen a number of things posted here over time, and would want to see that the OP actually took the car to tesla, and that the complaint on the service submittal was "customer states complete brake failure" / "customer states brake pedal presses to floor with no brakes being applied" or something like that.

The car is already in service, so this is something that would be easy to prove. The "WHY" of any such failure could be many things, and is between this OP and Tesla, unless they choose to share it. My skepticism is simply that the OP joined specifically to make this thread, which I have seen before under similar circumstances. Sharing the tesla service ticket would be easy since the car is already in service.

 

[CyberGus]

They should really label the emergency brake or something. I discovered it by mistake myself. I accidentally held down park instead of the washer fluid button.

I demand Teslacam evidence

 

[CyberGus]

Either way, I recommend giving your brakes a really good stomp every once in a while

That's how I parallel-park

 

[Maxpilot]

Since we have to apply the brake in order to "start" the car, I assume the car performs several checks of the safety systems... like brake pressure. I don't think it would be possible to get the car out of park if it did not pass a safety check.

 

[mtndrew1]

I agree a valid complaint should be filed with NHTSA if there was a brake failure.

But I disagree that “operator error” events should preclude being logged. Back when GM had ignition turning off/failing on vehicles in motion, sometimes the service shop would say the issue was “operator error” because the user had too many keys on their fob.

While I can understand why having 20 keys on a fob is the owners fault, I also understand that a owner may not realize they did an error… and unintended errors aren’t supposed to cause a car to shut off or brakes to stop working. Edit, with the GM thing, sometimes the airbag would fail to deploy as well, which compounded how terrible the event really was.

TL;DR if the operator believes something was wrong, they should still file a NHTSA complaint even if some attribute the event on operator error.

Fair, you make a good point. My concern is that the event gets in the NHTSA database in the event that it’s a widespread problem in need of a recall.

 

[jjrandorin]

Since we have to apply the brake in order to "start" the car, I assume the car performs several checks of the safety systems... like brake pressure. I don't think it would be possible to get the car out of park if it did not pass a safety check.

This implies that its not possible for the car to pass that check, then lose brake pressure "later" which doesnt have to be true. Once we get past the "yes, this car is actually in service for complete brake failure", we need to assume that the OPs statements as they remember the sequence of events is correct from their point of view.

As I mentioned (twice), my only skepticism is that this is not just a post to "get discussion going". I am not trying to assign blame or anything, just would like some proof that the OP has a car in service for complete brake failure.

My suggestion would be for everyone to hold off with the pitchforks and let the OP prove there is a car in service. I would actually advise the OP NOT to post any videos, etc, even if they have them. Nothing good could come of that, since it will just end up with a lot of people trying to dig through the OPs video frame by frame etc (people looooovvvvvveeeeee to do that here).

 

[Maxpilot]

This implies that its not possible for the car to pass that check, then lose brake pressure "later" which doesnt have to be true.

I was not implying that.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

"After this incident, when I press on the brake pad it just goes in all the way braking just a little bit and when I let go, it gets released with hissing sound. Few hours later my screen says "Brake fluid Low Pull over safely."

This is an interesting statement.

Did it take three hours to have your car towed?
Did you drive around after the brake failure?
Did that warning occur earlier and you ignored it?

I know sometimes things get lost in translation, but this just reads oddly.

It also seems odd they would be pressing the brake pad. Perhaps they meant the brake pedal?

 

[junos12]

Thank you everyone for their concerns.

I messaged the serviced department to see what's going on with my car and they are running diagnosis on it, I will update here when I get the report.

Here's the rough timeline of what happened.

07/16/2021 06:30 pm - Brake failure, was able to drive it home with regenerative brake
07/17/2021 09 am - called Tesla to report the problem, they asked me to turn off the car completely wait 2 minutes and turn it back on, brake still didn't work while running some tests and pressing on the brake pedal few times, "brake fluid low" notification popped up on the screen
07/17/2021 11 am - my car was towed, I could see some spills on the driveway, I always park at the same spot, never saw that before

I do have sentry cam footages and pictures & videos of brake not working but like someone said I do not feel comfortable uploading it here, I'll ask Tesla if they want to see it. Also I will file a complaint on NHTSA like someone mentioned, thank you.

 

[pl8dlikafiddle]

This sounds like a hydraulic fluid leakage/failure issue - because the pedal went to the floor. Booster failure would have caused a hard pedal instead of pedal going to the floor.

Really interested in what Tesla finds. If it was a leak/part failure, there would be fluid all over one of the control arms, brake caliper, wheel, wheelwells, undercarriage, etc. It would be very obvious that the brake fluid leaked out. There are so many possibilities here from rodents, road debris damage to a flex hose, installation/assembly issue (loose bleeder screw for example), or part failure. Like someone already suggested, if this car was parked at the same spot, investigate that parking spot to see if there's brake fluid evidence of a leak.

Just a reminder - the hydraulic braking system in Teslas are the same in concept as any other hydraulically assisted braking system in modern vehicles. The main difference is that the brake booster in ICE cars rely on engine vacuum, while Teslas have an electric booster. Otherwise, the failure points are the same.

Let's hope this isn't a faulty part - highly unlikely since the OP has owned this car for a year, but anything is possible.

 

[holeydonut]

This sounds like a hydraulic fluid leakage/failure issue - because the pedal went to the floor. Booster failure would have caused a hard pedal instead of pedal going to the floor.

Really interested in what Tesla finds. If it was a leak/part failure, there would be fluid all over one of the control arms, brake caliper, wheel, wheelwells, undercarriage, etc. It would be very obvious that the brake fluid leaked out. There are so many possibilities here from rodents, road debris damage to a flex hose, installation/assembly issue (loose bleeder screw for example), or part failure. Like someone already suggested, if this car was parked at the same spot, investigate that parking spot to see if there's brake fluid evidence of a leak.

Just a reminder - the hydraulic braking system in Teslas are the same in concept as any other hydraulically assisted braking system in modern vehicles. The main difference is that the brake booster in ICE cars rely on engine vacuum, while Teslas have an electric booster. Otherwise, the failure points are the same.

Let's hope this isn't a faulty part - highly unlikely since the OP has owned this car for a year, but anything is possible.

Yeah, if we can see pics of where the fluid blasted out it'll help to see if the leak was up near the booster or down near the chassis components. I think the booster or master had to rupture to depressurize both halves of the brake system simultaneously. Hopefully Tesla can give an itemized list of replaced parts. But it's likely they already cleaned up the mess so we won't see the source of all the leaks.

 

[pl8dlikafiddle]

Yeah, if we can see pics of where the fluid blasted out it'll help to see if the leak was up near the booster or down near the chassis components. I think the booster or master had to rupture to depressurize both halves of the brake system simultaneously. Hopefully Tesla can give an itemized list of replaced parts. But it's likely they already cleaned up the mess so we won't see the source of all the leaks.

Yeah, this would definitely be one of those “look under and around the car before jimmy hauls it away” scenarios for me.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thank you everyone for their concerns.

I messaged the serviced department to see what's going on with my car and they are running diagnosis on it, I will update here when I get the report.

Here's the rough timeline of what happened.

07/16/2021 06:30 pm - Brake failure, was able to drive it home with regenerative brake
07/17/2021 09 am - called Tesla to report the problem, they asked me to turn off the car completely wait 2 minutes and turn it back on, brake still didn't work while running some tests and pressing on the brake pedal few times, "brake fluid low" notification popped up on the screen
07/17/2021 11 am - my car was towed, I could see some spills on the driveway, I always park at the same spot, never saw that before

I do have sentry cam footages and pictures & videos of brake not working but like someone said I do not feel comfortable uploading it here, I'll ask Tesla if they want to see it. Also I will file a complaint on NHTSA like someone mentioned, thank you.


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Appreciate the reply post. Hopefully tesla can tell you what happened, and I am very happy no one was hurt in your case. As I mentioned, I absolutely advise against posting any video, etc on this here. I have seen that story play out several times, and there is nothing for you to gain from doing so.

It would be nice to know what the final root cause is in this case, once you hear it from tesla.

 

[holeydonut]

Yeah, this would definitely be one of those “look under and around the car before jimmy hauls it away” scenarios for me.

Yeah I just forgot this is a Tesla so all the components are hidden behind panels and stuff.

Does the Model 3 even have the master cylinder and booster along the firewall? Does a Model 3 even have a cross car beam and firewall? lol.

 

[brkaus]

I’m also looking forward to the Tesla analysis. Modem brake systems have lots of backups in the design but there are likely some single point failure places too.