Brakes did not engage!

[Chicago5008]

Hello all,

My dad purchased a Model 3 at the end of April. Last week, he was driving to work, and he hit the car in front of him. He feels confidently that he was hitting the brakes and that nothing happened, the car just wouldn’t stop. This was morning rush hour and a high traffic stop and go local street so not high speed and should not have been difficult to stop. There was damage to the front bumper and ALL of the airbags deployed. He is trying to find out how to obtain the EDR records from Tesla. The car is parked at the repair facility waiting for insurance but obviously if there was a break failure that should change liability. Anyone have insight on where I should start?

 

[Thomas Edison]

The brake booster still has a mechanical mechanism connected to the pedal. If you hit the pedal, then it will stop the car. Even tapping the brake pedal slightly disengages any cruise control or auto pilot system.

 

[superbaka]

The brake booster still has a mechanical mechanism. if you hit the pedal then it will stop the car.

Yes, mechanical things never break.

 

[mtndrew1]

An impact at low traffic speeds that deployed all the airbags points to pedal misapplication. Pedal misapplication is very common and few realize what has happened until after logs are reviewed. If the accelerator was forcefully applied the car would accelerate to a point where the subsequent impact deceleration was severe enough to fire the airbags.

The brakes on this car are mechanical and, while possible (in any car), it’s very unlikely that the brake system failed. Had the system failed it would likely remain failed after the impact since it’s a relatively simple mechanical system.

Can the car apply brakes after the impact?

 

[Thomas Edison]

Yes, mechanical things never break.

You’re suggesting a new car has what broken to cause this?

 

[superbaka]

You’re suggesting a new car has what broken to cause this?

Who knows. But I would never say "something is mechanical, therefore it can't break".

 

[Chicago5008]

An impact at low traffic speeds that deployed all the airbags points to pedal misapplication. Pedal misapplication is very common and few realized what has happened until after logs are reviewed. If the accelerator was forcefully applied the car would accelerate to a point where the subsequent impact deceleration was severe enough to fire the airbags.

The brakes on this car are mechanical and, while possible (in any car), it’s very unlikely that the brake system failed. Had the system failed it would likely remain failed after the impact since it’s a relatively simple mechanical system.

Can the car apply brakes after the impact?

The car has not since been driven since the airbags deployed. It was towed to repair facility.

 

[DOC52]

An impact at low traffic speeds that deployed all the airbags points to pedal misapplication. Pedal misapplication is very common and few realized what has happened until after logs are reviewed. If the accelerator was forcefully applied the car would accelerate to a point where the subsequent impact deceleration was severe enough to fire the airbags.

The brakes on this car are mechanical and, while possible (in any car), it’s very unlikely that the brake system failed. Had the system failed it would likely remain failed after the impact since it’s a relatively simple mechanical system.

Can the car apply brakes after the impact?

+1

Hope your dad's ok OP, but most likely the gas pedal was accidentally pressed, especially with the deployment of the airbags.

 

[GolanB]

Hello all,

My dad purchased a Model 3 at the end of April. Last week, he was driving to work, and he hit the car in front of him. He feels confidently that he was hitting the brakes and that nothing happened, the car just wouldn’t stop. This was morning rush hour and a high traffic stop and go local street so not high speed and should not have been difficult to stop. There was damage to the front bumper and ALL of the airbags deployed. He is trying to find out how to obtain the EDR records from Tesla. The car is parked at the repair facility waiting for insurance but obviously if there was a break failure that should change liability. Anyone have insight on where I should start?

Not to pass judgement here but most of the time these cases are investigated the conclusion is not in favor of the driver.

That said, you should nevertheless ask Tesla to review the logs from the vehicle. This will require a call into support and potentially an escalation. If your father happened to have generated a bug report following the accident this will be helpful. Also helpful would be providing video footage from the TeslaCam if this is available. Either way, they will need to know the time of the event. Given the fact that the airbags deployed they should not have trouble finding the logs.

You will also need to keep on top of your case, and it may take Tesla a bit of time to get your answers. The car is equipped with many sensors and they’ve got the ability to determine what happened.

If there is a fault in the car, they will ask that you bring it in to the service center.

 

[Chicago5008]

Not to pass judgement here but most of the time these cases are investigated the conclusion is not in favor of the driver.

That said, you should nevertheless ask Tesla to review the logs from the vehicle. This will require a call into support and potentially an escalation. If your father happened to have generated a bug report following the accident this will be helpful. Also helpful would be providing video footage from the TeslaCam if this is available. Either way, they will need to know the exact time of the event.

You will also need to keep on top of your case, and it may take Tesla a bit of time to get your answers. The car is equipped with many sensors and they’ve got the ability to determine what happened.

If there is a fault in the car, they will ask that you bring it in to the service center.

Thanks for the reply. He has not had much luck with contacting Tesla. I guess it may take some time to hear some response from them?

 

[Thomas Edison]

Who knows. But I would never say "something is mechanical, therefore it can't break".

Then I guess it’s a good thing that I didn’t.

 

[brkaus]

@wk057 will pull the details. He has a bet going and has yet to find an actual failure if I recall correctly.

You can also buy the cable and software to pull the basic accident info.

 

[GolanB]

Thanks for the reply. He has not had much luck with contacting Tesla. I guess it may take some time to hear some response from them?

I suggest calling their main support number and waiting on hold until he gets a live individual. They will give you their name, and the case number if you just ask. You should also have them send an email so that you’ve got tracking of the case and can stay in touch electronically as well. Tesla takes these events seriously, and it should not be too much trouble to get the process rolling, although it can take some time - up to 21 days for Tesla to issue an official response according to some others I know who’ve gone through the process. Getting a case open should not take you more than 30 minutes.

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah- 100% of cases where the driver was "sure" they were hitting the brake- they were instead hitting the accelerator.

Everything from the description sounds like that'd be the case here too.

 

[mtndrew1]

The car has not since been driven since the airbags deployed. It was towed to repair facility.

I see. Well it will be very easy to determine if the brakes failed as hydraulic brake systems don’t tend to fail then un-fail.

Anything is possible of course but I’ve got a dollar on pedal misapplication.

Glad nobody was hurt.

 

[GreenT]

Thanks for the reply. He has not had much luck with contacting Tesla. I guess it may take some time to hear some response from them?

Good luck! Some time ... yes ...

 

[Chicago5008]

Yeah- 100% of cases where the driver was "sure" they were hitting the brake- they were instead hitting the accelerator.

Everything from the description sounds like that'd be the case here too.

Yes, I guess if that’s the case, that’s the case. But figured it might be worth looking into since the information can be made available.

 

[GolanB]

Yes, I guess if that’s the case, that’s the case. But figured it might be worth looking into since the information can be made available.

I agree; and not only this- since it’s your father at the very least, you’ve got an obligation to find out what actually happened. There is nothing like proper closure. The most important thing here is that he’s Ok and is not fearful of driving the car in the future.

 

[derekmw]

I think it's time Tesla included +1 camera, in the foot well of the driver. It will be a quick easy answer to all these 'I hit the brake' scenarios.

"oh my, would you look at that...you can clearly see his foot on the accelerator pedal..not the brake"

 

[Daniel in SD]

I see. Well it will be very easy to determine if the brakes failed as hydraulic brake systems don’t tend to fail then un-fail.

Anything is possible of course but I’ve got a dollar on pedal misapplication.

Glad nobody was hurt.

The brake system is a hydraulic system with valves that can prevent the the brake pressure from reaching the wheels (i.e. ABS). Given that Tesla had documented problems with their ABS system firmware in early Model 3 (which they fixed with an OTA update ) it's not impossible for there to be a failure that "un-fails".
I believe this is very unlikely and is likely just pedal misapplication but it's not physically impossible.