charrigan
Member
I believe that Tesla would say that vision alone will be safer than vision + radar, even in less than ideal conditions, by the time radar is deactivated. So, they will be making your car safer by making the change.
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Can Tesla add Radar Back at a Later Date?
- Thread starter Lrmatthews18
- Start date
You could choose to just stop following the debate
.Freedom of choice, we dont like "how" Tesla decided out of nowhere to ditch radar in only 2 models delivered in the North American market only.
I wouldnt have personally taken ownership of a car without radar. Vision is still unproven, and it took me years to trust Tesla AP enough to even test drive one of their cars. I didnt feel like the SW was mature enough for myself or my family.
Now, I'm back to feeling like we're to square one. You do have a choice, a voice, and a pocket book that you can tell them exactly how you feel.
AP 9 with vision only keeps getting delayed... yet, these 2 cars became the guinea pigs. Obviously, it isnt ready.
Perhaps, but I feel safe in saying that NO ONE on this forum has the length of experience or the amount of data that Tesla does in this area. I'm not saying they are right all the time, just that they have the data that they feel backs up their decisions. No one else has that.
Right, and is anyone allowed to review "the data" to ensure Tesla made the "right" decision for consumers?
At some point, I see an FAA type entity required to validate car manufacturer's data. Perhaps even going so far as to validate/certify prior to any new releases or last minute modifications to automated systems before it is allowed to drive on Public roadways. The more complex and automated vehicles on the roadways become, the more regulated the systems driving on them will become.
Lets not forget, the heart of the 737 MAX failure was an autipilot (SW) without redundancy (HW) and the system was engineered around decades of "the data".
Isn't NHTSA supposed to be doing that? 'National Highway Traffic Safety Administration'. I don't know whether they have the authority to do that, but we certainly don't need another bureaucracy invented. And the FAA failed miserably with the 737 MAX. They had the authority to demand that Boeing retrain all pilots on the updated aircraft and didn't do it. I'd argue that it had nothing to do with data, but with Boeing's desire to get the plane certified quickly and making bolt-on SW updates that weren't tested under all conditions and without training the pilots on how to use and override it. You certainly can't blame Tesla by saying that they introduced their full system too quickly. Their biggest mistake, I think, is in what they call it.
Don't forget, States have a lot more regional leverage to traffic laws vs Federal flight regulations on aircraft and airspace.
NHTSA doesnt have the same level of federal authority as the FAA, but both fall 2nd to the NTSB during investigations of either vehicle or aircraft accidents. And the NTSB isn't too happy with states allowing unfettered Autopilot vehicles driving on roads they weren't designed to, or in situations they weren't designed to.
The software on vision cars doesn’t use radar, so installing it will do nothing. The question is, why would you want it? IIHS has already rated the vision cars as safer than radar cars. The only thing radar would get you is conflicting sensor info which leads to more phantom braking… and a higher price tag.
No they haven’t. They said they were “at least as safe as” the radar equipped vehicles in certain tests they performed.
Which doesn’t mean a whole lot when it comes to real world driving.
Anyone who has driven a radar and vision equipped vehicle knows the vision-only models are sub-par.
IIHS article - "Following a conversion to a camera only system, the standard front crash prevention system earns superior ratings in both the vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-pedestrian tests."
Superior = better. Not my interpretation, just their rating.
You clearly don’t know how their rating system works. The radar systems are also rated “superior”. Making them the same in the tests conducted. Which is exactly what I said.
I also said, in the real world, that doesn’t matter.
Ok, so the rating is called superior, but the vision models got the plus rating as well and radar did not. So if I am misunderstanding their system then why would they differentiate? It certainly seems that it was rated better.
IIHS ratings - "Award applies only to vehicles built after April 2021"
CleanTechnica Article - "...only Model Ys built after April 2021 get the Top Safety Pick + award. Vehicles built before that date are still recommended, they just don’t have the “Plus” rating. IIHS says, Following a conversion to a camera only system, the standard front crash prevention system earns superior ratings in both the vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-pedestrian tests. The two available headlight systems earn good and acceptable ratings…” Separately, the standard front crash prevention system on 2021–22 Tesla Model 3 vehicles built after April 2021 also earns a superior rating in both crash avoidance tests”
it’s certainly not because of the vision system since the rating is “superior” for both vision and radar models.
It was because of the change to matrix headlights for all trims. “For the higher-tier TOP SAFETY PICK+, good or acceptable headlights must be standard across all trims.”
This is how fake news starts. People spouting off, posting link headlines, and not understanding what they mean.
And this STILL does not change the fact that vision-only is inferior in real world use.
Once again, the Safety+ score has NOTHING to do with the radars.
The + score has to do with the headlights being the same across all trims.
CleanTechnica Article - "In particular, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) downgraded its safety rating for the Model Y until it could complete its own tests of the Pure Vision technology. Now it has done just that and concluded the new system actually is better than the prior system, which used a blend of radar and camera sensors. As a result, it has reinstated the Model Y’s Top Safety Pick + rating."
Hmmm, don't think so. The 2021 and 2022 models both have Good for the MYP headlights and Acceptable for the MYLR. And I specifically recall that there were postings about them having to reevaluate the ratings with the vision-only cars (which is why the 2021 rating says for cars built after April 2021). I'm not even sure what the original debate was about, but whatever.
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