How does Tesla usually roll out changes vs. announcing changes (radar)

[YW555]

Some recent info out of China...typical Tesla...."hey guys let's remove some cameras, that will surely make the system better"....LOL

Tesla HW4/AP4 to reduce forward facing cameras to 2 and add fan, B pillar camera to get new heating device

Based on documents submitted to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Tesla is getting ready to announce a new high-res radar unit as soon as next week, that would presumably form part of their next generation […]

driveteslacanada.ca

There are 3 camera facing the front: wide angle, normal and zoom. With higher resolution they probably combined normal and zoom together. I don't see any problem here.

 

[arbitrage000]

There are 3 camera facing the front: wide angle, normal and zoom. With higher resolution they probably combined normal and zoom together. I don't see any problem here.

Yes, Tesla knows best. Someday they'll bring back parking features for cars without USS and someday they'll get Vison AP to not phantom brake all the time unlike radar based....LOL

Joking aside, your theory on the combination of normal and zoom at higher res makes sense. In this case one less stream of data that may be redundant could help the system process things easier.

 

[qdeathstar]

Sorry, Looks like I am lost.
Do anyone please help me understand.
1. Radar-Is this needed to have the self drive?
2.HW4-what changes we are expecting? Is this a worth to wait till this change is confirmed.
3. What other changes/upgrades done 2022 Vs 2023 model?

No it is not needed, some people think it is but fsd beta has improved since ditching radar. People say it is needed for redundancy; in case one system fails for level 5 driving. We are way way way far away from level 5 driving. So we are a long way way way before we need to worry about redundancy.

If you buy fsd outright for 10K, hw4 will be free upgrade like 2.5 to 3 was.

 

[Yelobird]

Yes, Tesla knows best. Someday they'll bring back parking features for cars without USS and someday they'll get Vison AP to not phantom brake all the time unlike radar based....LOL

Joking aside, your theory on the combination of normal and zoom at higher res makes sense. In this case one less stream of data that may be redundant could help the system process things easier.

Not sure I would agree the PB was after radar removal. In fact my PB events Ended when they disabled the radar.

 

[Tam]

If you buy fsd outright for 10K, hw4 will be free upgrade like 2.5 to 3 was.

Not sure that Tesla will upgrade hw4 to hw5 for free.

The earnings call stated that there's no path for hw3 to be upgraded to hw4.

Tesla will not offer HW3 to HW4 retrofit because it won't be needed: Elon Musk

Even before Tesla has officially introduced their next generation self-driving computer, known as Hardware 4 (HW4), owners have been asking if there is going to be a retrofit to allow them to upgrade to the [...]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[Tam]

1. Radar-Is this needed to have the self drive?

Depending who you ask, I think all other companies agree that you need RADAR for self-driving.

However, Tesla is a loner who thinks that Vision is good enough to be superhuman for self-driving.

2.HW4-what changes we are expecting?

More power, also speculated that radar will be back in...

I don't think it will change much in terms of collision avoidance ability, you still have to drive or it can get you into big troubles like collisions...

Is this a worth to wait till this change is confirmed.

Self-driving is hard to be solved. Waymos, Cruise can do self-driving but only in specific cities (L4) and not everywhere because, again, it is hard.

The wait for L5 (self-driving everywhere) will be very long. Maybe it will not happen during in our lifetime.

I don't think Tesla can ever achieve L3 and beyond if it cannot solve the problem of collisions.

 

[woolymammoth17]

No it is not needed, some people think it is but fsd beta has improved since ditching radar. People say it is needed for redundancy; in case one system fails for level 5 driving. We are way way way far away from level 5 driving. So we are a long way way way before we need to worry about redundancy.

If you buy fsd outright for 10K, hw4 will be free upgrade like 2.5 to 3 was.

Elon Musk kills hope of Tesla retrofitting new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware

Elon Musk has killed the little hope some had for Tesla in offering a retrofit to the new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware...

electrek.co

No upgrade and it's looking like HW2.5 and HW3 will never be self driving.

 

[E46M3]

if you are not goona buy FSD or ESD, does missing USS/radar really matter that much. I don't call parking chime a must have.

 

[exxxviii]

if you are not goona buy FSD or ESD, does missing USS/radar really matter that much. I don't call parking chime a must have.

Two different things. USS is used for slow things - parking assist and the summon features of EAP. Radar is high speed stuff auto pilot, EAP, and FSD. Tesla Vision replace radar long ago for those features.

 

[qdeathstar]

Elon Musk kills hope of Tesla retrofitting new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware

Elon Musk has killed the little hope some had for Tesla in offering a retrofit to the new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware...

electrek.co

No upgrade and it's looking like HW2.5 and HW3 will never be self driving.

Then I believe people who want to sue will begin have standing. As soon as someone who bought fsd with hw3 isn’t getting the same features as someone with hw4. They offered free upgrade hw2.5 to 3

 

[sidewinder]

i'm wondering if only vision based safety system would be able to help in this situation. its a disabled black car that is on the middle of the freeway without any flasher. i think a radar would sense it and react accordingly but seems very tricky for vision only system.

 

[Mike7564]

i'm wondering if only vision based safety system would be able to help in this situation. its a disabled black car that is on the middle of the freeway without any flasher. i think a radar would sense it and react accordingly but seems very tricky for vision only system.

What type of person just sits there and video tapes that. Call 911? Flares? Anything?

 

[[Zombie]]

i think a radar would sense it

Radar is terrible at picking up other cars that are stationary. Anything that's not moving with respect to the background blends into the background.

 

[Mike7564]

Radar is terrible at picking up other cars that are stationary. Anything that's not moving with respect to the background blends into the background.

Hmmm. Haven’t heard that before. Perhaps you have a reference or can explain why radar would depend on an objects motion? Since the vehicle is likely not stationary, then why would this be relevant.

 

[woolymammoth17]

Hmmm. Haven’t heard that before. Perhaps you have a reference or can explain why radar would depend on an objects motion? Since the vehicle is likely not stationary, then why would this be relevant.

Radar picks up stationary objects just fine. The issue is it does not know their density, or what the object is. So driver assist systems ignore all of the stationary data so that there isn't full on emergency brake when there is a garbage bag flying in the wind, or similar.

 

[[Zombie]]

explain why radar would depend on an objects motion?

Most radar cruise control systems use Doppler radar, which bounces a signal off the remote vehicles, uses the elapsed time to determine distance and the frequency change (Doppler shift) to determine their speed relative to your own vehicle.

Any stationary vehicle will have the same relative speed as the background, so it will be difficult to determine if the reflection is from another vehicle, the road itself, or roadside objects.

If you look at the user manual of any vehicle with radar cruise control they will have clear disclaimers about the problems detecting stationary vehicles, not just Tesla.

eg Ford, Mercedes-Benz, Mazda

 

[qdeathstar]

i'm wondering if only vision based safety system would be able to help in this situation. its a disabled black car that is on the middle of the freeway without any flasher. i think a radar would sense it and react accordingly but seems very tricky for vision only system.

I feel like yes it would. Most likely those drivers were distracted. There were enough lights to see the car.

 

[tangible1]

How has Tesla historically handled model changes. Do they:
- Announce first then introduce or remove from the car sometime later
- Or make the change to production cars first and announce it after its already in production and being distributed?

In particular, it now looks like Tesla will announce something about radar before 2/7/2023 based on FCC filing. Are they likely to have started producing cars with the new radar before that date or roll it out afterwards?

I have a MY ready for delivery. I'm debating refusing this vehicle and see if I get a few week delay. But seems risky with the March date for revised tax credit rules.

Can anyone comment on past experience with model changes and announcements?
How were previous changes to the self driving sensor suite handled?

Thanks

Model Year changeovers are done for regulatory purposes more than the traditional design / feature / spec changes.
Govt Regulations require a baseline of specs be approved, but after that, Tesla updates / changes / refines the products at will and as able.
Broadly, November begins construction of new model year cars, but they sometimes have been started in October.
It's largely at Tesla's will after they've gotten regs approved by the Feds.

Tesla is either 'notorious' or 'capricious' or 'generous' with their hardware changes.
Unlike Legacy cars, Tesla does 'continuous improvements'. whether this works for you is Eye of the Beholder.

 

[Rice&Curry]

I feel like yes it would. Most likely those drivers were distracted. There were enough lights to see the car.

I am wondering what the driver was doing ? was he looking at the road ahead? Since the stationary car must have been there from some time and other cars did not go and hit it, I am assuming that an attentive driver may have avoided this accident.