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Can Tesla add Radar Back at a Later Date?
- Thread starter Lrmatthews18
- Start date
On what basis is the lawsuit? Tesla has always said the driver is fully responsible and FSD is only an aid to the driver.
GeezerSquid
Still a Geezer & Still A Squid
A little. I mainly posted it because I thought it was funny. But the bald naked truth, from my warped perspective is that they are going "all in" on this move. It HAS to be based on a ton of research and therefore backed up by that data.
jerome347
Member
I would tend to agree - I think vision would be reasonable to be the primary driving system. Where radar does come in handy are those low visibility situations (fog, night, etc) where it can pick up things that are moving with clearer resolution than a camera system could (unless they've implemented FLIR cameras we aren't aware of...lol yeah right). The frame rate is better on a vision-based system in the visible light and IR spectrums.
The frame rates on radar and UV cameras are lower. Ever notice how it takes a radar TACC system a second or two to confirm that the car in front of you has actually turned? If there is a car in front of that one, it seems to hesitate longer. I think what happens is that it has to recalculate if the moving object is really out of the way...so it plays it safer than you would with your brain-based vision system.
If the vision system's depth perception was improved and could provide a software-based replacement for radar-based ranging and calculating velocity changes, then we'd likely see smoother acceleration, braking, lane-keeping behavior, road marking estimation, etc, etc. The current "FSD/Autopilot" versions of software do not have that...because they were reliant on the radar for those data points. The FSD beta footage looks VERY promising in how it safely negotiates some weird city driving situations where I, as an experienced adult driver, sometimes find it challenging to proceed cautiously without waving/motioning to other people.
DanCar
Active Member
Not a chance. It is based on desperation due to part shortage. Elon has a very poor track record on vision, by always stating incorrectly since 2015 that FSD is a couple of years away.
Basis? Overpromising capabilities and thus leading to injury or death? Also this has nothing to do with FSD or haven't you been listening? This is about predictive braking and other safety features, not FSD. The ability of the system to protect the driver and others is a claim made by Tesla for years Now with the removal of radar (due to a parts shortage) they have reduced the safety of the vehicle and are not being honest about it.
If you don't see the potential for legal liability here you aren't paying attention.
I'm involved in product development (enterprise security software not vehicles) and I very often see the "the data shows x" arguments for feature design that end up being bullshit because the wrong questions were asked of the data. Data is only useful if you use it properly. I see here a desire for the data to say that radar is unnecessary so that Tesla can keep production numbers high. That is very worrisome.
YieldFarmer
Analytic.eth
Now... why would all the connections still exist, if it were a well planned/engineered solution to transition to Tesla Vision...
Manufacturers do this all the time. Easier to manufacture one part than multiple versions.
Usually, you'd cut the weight of extra parts, brackets and cost of connectors... if it were a planned event executed at the planned time.
It is also back as a top safety pick. This is the 3 but deals with the removal of radar:
www.consumerreports.org
Tesla Model 3 Regains CR Top Pick Status and IIHS Safety Award - Consumer Reports
The Tesla Model 3 regains its status as a Consumer Reports Top Pick and its IIHS Safety Award. New IIHS testing shows that Tesla’s new camera-based system provides effective automatic emergency braking.
No surprise there as likely tested in good conditions, with good visibility. I still doubt the new system is as good as the old system in bad weather.
Maybe you’ve never looked under or worked on cars before. Plenty of cars have connectors or brackets just sitting there.
Usually they exist intentionally, to allow for some cars with and some cars without the HW that gets connected with them. Turbos, Windshield rain sensors, headlight wipers, additional safety sensors, "premium technology" packages etc.
They imply that you "could" have paid more for something better (assuming of course the parts were still available, and not 1.5 years into a pandemic and historic parts shortages everywhere...).
The difference, those manufacturers upcharged you for more capability, not unilaterally pulled it from an entire geographic market, yet still gave it to tougher regulation markets.
You can work on something for decades as an engineer and SW developer and it still won't pan out.Because you know better than the thousands of hours of data and the developers that have worked on this for years.
Management and Executives make the decision to release products onto the market in order to keep their companies profitable.
Consumers decide if it really is safe enough for themselves and their families.
Governments regulate the aftermarket. If the car is safe enough (meaning not enough people have been killed because of the SW), then it remains on the market.
Competition comes in and tries to provide a "safer" and more appealing product on the market.
Adapt and overcome.
charrigan
Member
So what I want to know is what Tesla is going to do, if anything, to improve safety in less than ideal conditions for vision? A radar based emergency braking system earlier prevented at least 2 serious accidents for us.
I would really like to know how the radar based system compared to the new radar less system in less than ideal conditions such fog, rain, snow, smoke, sun blinding the sensors (if that happens), etc. Show me the data as that is when I really need something like an effective emergency braking or avoidance system.
I would really like to know how the radar based system compared to the new radar less system in less than ideal conditions such fog, rain, snow, smoke, sun blinding the sensors (if that happens), etc. Show me the data as that is when I really need something like an effective emergency braking or avoidance system.
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