Can You Trust Tesla's Impact Report Regarding Battery Packs? The Answer Is No

[mspohr]

1. Tesla limited the charging speed and battery capacity on the early Teslas to prevent fires without notifying the owners.
2. As soon as the warranties were up, Tesla restored the charging speed and battery capacity on some of the Teslas
3. Now that the warranties are no longer on the early Teslas a BMS_u029/BMS_u018 are now being experienced by a large number of owners in the last 2 years.
4. Tesla is making offers to the early owners to entice them to purchase new vehicles.

Watch what they do and not what they say.

I had a 2015 Model SD. Sold it a year ago with 100k miles. Battery degradation less than 5%. The new owner (a friend) is very happy with it and no problems.
I did experience the reduced charging speed after a software update and Tesla explained that this was to preserve the health of the battery. While not thrilled with the reduced charging speed, I was happy that Tesla was working to maintain the health of my car.
The reduced charging speed was never "restored" to the original speed. I don't know why you think that. You seem to imply that Tesla is intentionally trying to damage batteries. I doubt they make any money on replacement batteries or unhappy customers.
Tesla wants people to buy new cars to replace their 10 year old car. Whoopee. ?Clear signs of ?

 

[NV Ray]

I find it interesting you would think this, since, at least from what you have posted here, you bought this car from someone else last year around October or so, then within a 3-4 week time period after that, got this battery error and replaced the HV battery on your own dime. Since that time, most of the content you have posted here appears to in the vein of a long running, gentle smear campaign about HV battery failures.

Nothing that rises to moderator intervention, and I am not saying this as a mod, just as a regular poster. Given the above, its hard to see where you would also think "this is the best car I have owned".

My BMS_u029 alert came 3 days after purchase from original owner and while doing ownership transfer via Tesla app and then hitting Factory Reset. All was fine with car before that.

Sorry you have interpreted my actions a trying to smear Tesla. I started Tesla BMS_u029/BMS_u018 | Facebook purely for information sharing and awareness. In fact, I have rejected partipating in the pending lawsuit on this issue. I have nothing against Tesla and am glad they are able to have the technology to determine if there is an issue with my Tesla.

Lastly, as far as the best car I've owned, just because, since ownership, I've paid $15k for new pack and $1700 for new PTC heater w/fuses doesn't mean it's still the best car I've owned. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[jjrandorin]

My BMS_u029 alert came 3 days after purchase from original owner and while doing ownership transfer via Tesla app and then hitting Factory Reset. All was fine with car before that.

Sorry you have interpreted my actions a trying to smear Tesla. I started Tesla BMS_u029/BMS_u018 | Facebook purely for information sharing and awareness. In fact, I have rejected partipating in the pending lawsuit on this issue. I have nothing against Tesla and am glad they are able to have the technology to determine if there is an issue with my Tesla.

Lastly, as far as the best car I've owned, just because, since ownership, I've paid $15k for new pack and $1700 for new PTC heater w/fuses doesn't mean it's still the best car I've owned. Wouldn't you agree?

The number of people who would buy a car, then spend 17k repairing it in their first year of ownership and still call it "the best car I have ever owned" is likely quite small. Also, most people who felt that way would not be focusing on "awareness" of something like this, they would just drive their car after fixing it.

I will say again that I dont really care, I dont work for Tesla, nor really care if someone is focusing effort on "awareness around HV battery failures in older Model S/X vehicles suffering from BMS_u029 issues". I just was saying that it does not give the appearance at all of "the best car I have ever owned", so I find that a somewhat interesting statement.

 

[NV Ray]

The number of people who would buy a car, then spend 17k repairing it in their first year of ownership and still call it "the best car I have ever owned" is likely quite small. Also, most people who felt that way would not be focusing on "awareness" of something like this, they would just drive their car after fixing it.

I will say again that I dont really care, I dont work for Tesla, nor really care if someone is focusing effort on "awareness around HV battery failures in older Model S/X vehicles suffering from BMS_u029 issues". I just was saying that it does not give the appearance at all of "the best car I have ever owned", so I find that a somewhat interesting statement.

Thanks for clarifying you're point of view.

I still take issue with you alleging that I'm initiating a smear campaign.

 

[Droschke]

a member of the Tesla BMS_u029/BMS_u018 | Facebook is preparing a class action lawsuit.

In fact, I have rejected partipating in the pending lawsuit on this issue

What mechanism did you use to "reject" to participate in a pending class action lawsuit?

 

[NV Ray]

What mechanism did you use to "reject" to participate in a pending class action lawsuit?

Lawyer verbally asked me, I said no.

 

[Droschke]

Lawyer verbally asked me, I said no.

So, you have excluded yourself to benefit from a possible substantial compensation at the conclusion of the class action?

 

[maximizese]

The article makes many false claims. I'll just point out one false claim below.



No, all buyer of Model S do not all eventually receive a hefty estimate for a battery pack replacement like the article claims.

As NV Ray alluded to, I think your interpretation is not correct. The article isn't saying all buyers of the Model S will eventually receive a hefty estimate for battery pack replacement, but rather THESE buyers which the author was referencing as owners who experience major battery issues due to factors including age, usage, and general wear. "These" used in the context of the article refers to some, not all. You have to read the paragraphs before to get proper context. But I think it's fair to say that perhaps some of the statements raised in the article are opinions and not facts.

 

[ucmndd]

I don't trust anyone who go public with complaints. Too much TSLAQ lurking around here

That’s absurd. If you’re willing to stick your head in the sand and accuse anyone who dares talk about the real issues this company and its cars have of being a stock market short, you’re just as guilty as the trolls.

FWIW, I’ve never got the impression Ray was out to “smear” Tesla. I think he’s been far more level-headed and neutral about the whole thing than I would have been in his situation. He just seems to want to raise awareness to others, and that’s a good thing. These early cars have real issues.

 

[maximizese]

That’s absurd. If you’re willing to stick your head in the sand and accuse anyone who dares talk about the real issues this company and its cars have of being a stock market short, you’re just as guilty as the trolls.

FWIW, I’ve never got the impression Ray was out to “smear” Tesla. I think he’s been far more level-headed and neutral about the whole thing than I would have been in his situation. He just seems to want to raise awareness to others, and that’s a good thing. These early cars have real issues.

Well said. I'm not upvoting or downvoting for any personal reasons, but rather trying to be objective and not make assumptions about anyone's intentions without evidence. I've noticed Ray's many posts related to his recent acquisition of a Model S which soon after faced a sizable bill to replace the HV battery pack. He loved the car when he first bought it, bummed that broke and cost a pretty penny, but now loves the faster SuC speeds, range, and power. I think him sharing his experience has been a benefit for everyone, especially for all the 2012-2015 Model S owners. I don't recall him persuading anyone against buying or owning a Tesla in or out of warranty, but he's merely sharing his experience. Having to repair a car and still believe it's the best car you've owned is not mutually exclusive; talk to any BMW or Range Rover owner (jokes aside), any classic/exotic car owner, or pro-am racer, all of those cars require a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and green but that doesn't mean that their owners can't believe it's the best car they've owned or driven.

Yes these cars have real issues and we all hope they get ironed out for the benefit of both the individual owners, the company, the environment, and the EV revolution.

 

[darktrancer_la]

Have you joined other BMS_u029 "casualties " here? Tesla BMS_u029/BMS_u018 | Facebook

Yes I have. I'm just not a fan of Facebook and don't spend a lot of time there.

 

[NV Ray]

Yes I have. I'm just not a fan of Facebook and don't spend a lot of time there.

There's a gentleman in our Group that also recently got the BMS_u029 alert after a MCU2 upgrade. Some speculation that need to upgrade firmware may have triggered the alert. Any OTA seems to contribute. Some theories are that we've had a problem all along and new update is able to look, or update resets BMS which then finds alert.

I had my MCU2 upgrade about a month ago and no alert. Then again, I recently got a NEW pack from Tesla before my MCU2 upgrade and figured I was under warranty if anything popped up

Here's FAQs I put together if you need it - https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ouid=101367879314455822316&rtpof=true&sd=true

 

[mspohr]

Well said. I'm not upvoting or downvoting for any personal reasons, but rather trying to be objective and not make assumptions about anyone's intentions without evidence. I've noticed Ray's many posts related to his recent acquisition of a Model S which soon after faced a sizable bill to replace the HV battery pack. He loved the car when he first bought it, bummed that broke and cost a pretty penny, but now loves the faster SuC speeds, range, and power. I think him sharing his experience has been a benefit for everyone, especially for all the 2012-2015 Model S owners. I don't recall him persuading anyone against buying or owning a Tesla in or out of warranty, but he's merely sharing his experience. Having to repair a car and still believe it's the best car you've owned is not mutually exclusive; talk to any BMW or Range Rover owner (jokes aside), any classic/exotic car owner, or pro-am racer, all of those cars require a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and green but that doesn't mean that their owners can't believe it's the best car they've owned or driven.

Yes these cars have real issues and we all hope they get ironed out for the benefit of both the individual owners, the company, the environment, and the EV revolution.

As the owner of a 20 year old Land Rover, I can sympathize with this. I have spent a fair amount on repairs but I love the car.
Nobody promised that 10 year old Tesla's wouldn't require maintenance. It does seem that a small number of people (compared to the 75,000+ pre-2015 Model S owners) have reported problems with the batteries. Not really unexpected.

 

[NV Ray]

As the owner of a 20 year old Land Rover, I can sympathize with this. I have spent a fair amount on repairs but I love the car.
Nobody promised that 10 year old Tesla's wouldn't require maintenance. It does seem that a small number of people (compared to the 75,000+ pre-2015 Model S owners) have reported problems with the batteries. Not really unexpected.

The way I figure it, the money I'm saving on maintenance on my Toyota Prius Prime can go to keeping #2446 on the road.

 

[Gixx1300R]

I had a 2015 Model SD. Sold it a year ago with 100k miles. Battery degradation less than 5%. The new owner (a friend) is very happy with it and no problems.
I did experience the reduced charging speed after a software update and Tesla explained that this was to preserve the health of the battery. While not thrilled with the reduced charging speed, I was happy that Tesla was working to maintain the health of my car.
The reduced charging speed was never "restored" to the original speed. I don't know why you think that. You seem to imply that Tesla is intentionally

I said some had their charging speed reinstated and I was one of them so I am speaking from experience

 

[DRS247]

In what fantasy world do you think there have only been 169 battery replacements in early Model S cars? The true number is certainly much much higher than that.

True.
Also, his logic of 0.00052 failures per car sold is flawed cause he is calculating on the basis of all Ss sold so far. The right way of doing it would be to find out the number of Model S sold between 2012 to 2014. Then divide It by 169 (and this number seems to be rising).
The results would be VERY different.

 

[mspohr]

True.
Also, his logic of 0.00052 failures per car sold is flawed cause he is calculating on the basis of all Ss sold so far. The right way of doing it would be to find out the number of Model S sold between 2012 to 2014. Then divide It by 169 (and this number seems to be rising).
The results would be VERY different.

My Feb 2015 was sn 77xxx so about 75,000 2012 to 2014 (assuming no numbers were skipped)

 

[NV Ray]

True.
Also, his logic of 0.00052 failures per car sold is flawed cause he is calculating on the basis of all Ss sold so far. The right way of doing it would be to find out the number of Model S sold between 2012 to 2014. Then divide It by 169 (and this number seems to be rising).
The results would be VERY different.

You are right. Another consideration is that, due to accidents, flood damage, etc, not all 2012-14 MS's are on the road. Further reducing the bottom number in the fraction.

Also, the 169 number is # of members in my Facebook Group. Based on recent poll I did of members, I estimate 40% of 169 are BMS_u029 "casualties". That reduces the top number in the fraction.

Lastly, only Tesla + the 3rd party vendors probably know exactly how many 2012-14 BMS_u029 "casualties" there have been. Tesla (and perhaps State DMVs) only know number of 2012-14 MS's still on the road.

That all said, it doesn't matter. What's important is that BMS_u029 "casualties" are growing and that current 2012-14 MS owner's and potential buyers are aware of what their options are if they become BMS_u029 "casualties".

 

[NV Ray]

My Feb 2015 was sn 77xxx so about 75,000 2012 to 2014 (assuming no numbers were skipped)

You're probably pretty close. This Jan 2015 article estimates 70,000. How Many Tesla Model S Electric Cars Have Been Built So Far?

 

[SO16]

I believe according to wk057, it seems many of those failures are due moisture via vents and the AC drain being on top of the packs. Later builds mid 2015 and newer with design changes, seem to be doing much better even in their point in history.

I suspect failure rate will be less in the future with newer designs.

Vendor - Preventative Maintenance regarding Battery Failures in early Model S vehicles (2012-2014)

There are some definite trends with early battery packs failing in earlier Model S vehicles... from day 1 builds up to about Q4'2014 and some even Q1'2015... and any cars that have had Tesla-refurbished packs installed. The issues are all pretty much the same thing in one form or another...

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