Canada Supercharging Rates Just Increased...

[swotam]

Owning a Model 3 just got so much better... just kidding! Although I love the fact that our Model S still has free SC for life, I think that I would buy a Model 3 over a Model S with free Supercharging.

Loving my Model 3 so far, prefer it over the Model S my brother has, but that's likely got a lot to do with "my car vs his car". I think the SC price increase is more of an issue for people who don't / can't charge at home, which is really more of an urban problem. For those of us in the 'burbs, with home charging being a fraction of the cost of gas, this increases the cost of road trips but overall that's (usually) a small percentage of overall use. Urban governments and developers need to start addressing the need to charge "at home", even if your home is a condo.

True, my other can is a Toyota Echo though. It gets just over 7L/100km in winter.

Just using this quote as an example, not referencing you in particular, but the smaller the car, the lower the overall difference between an EV or ICE when it comes to gas savings. Of course, in a general sense comparing a Tesla, which is (for the moment) targeting the luxury car crowd price-wise, to an economy car, overlooks the fact that many current Tesla owners likely switched from a luxury vehicle that required premium fuel, which is noticeably more expensive per litre.

Tesla will have difficult time convincing people buying the standard 3 to pay @ gas prices with the inconvenience of SC

I'm not familiar with your individual charging situation, but the general assumption is that Supercharging is something you do occasionally, not all the time. Home charging, which costs substantially less, is assumed to be the norm day to day, with Supercharging being used on road trips or long drives. The cost savings of an EV are based on overall use, not just when using a Supercharger. To be honest, if someone is buying a EV and relying on 3rd party fast-charging stations for all their charging, then cost savings likely shouldn't be among their reasons for buying an EV in the first place.

Tesla shouldn't be having to convince buyers of the standard Model 3 to pay equivalent to gas prices because they should be advising customers to charge at home since this is the most logical, cost effective, and convenient option for most.

 

[ZooSean]

Tesla will have difficult time convincing people buying the standard 3 to pay @ gas prices with the inconvenience of SC

That s the whole reason to jump the SC price to demote the Model 3 standard.

 

[bijan]

ust using this quote as an example, not referencing you in particular, but the smaller the car, the lower the overall difference between an EV or ICE when it comes to gas savings. Of course, in a general sense comparing a Tesla, which is (for the moment) targeting the luxury car crowd price-wise, to an economy car, overlooks the fact that many current Tesla owners likely switched from a luxury vehicle that required premium fuel, which is noticeably more expensive per litre.

These are the top 5 trade ins for the model 3:

• Toyota Prius.
• BMW 3-Series.
• Honda Accord.
• Honda Civic.
• Nissan Leaf.

Number 1 is the Prius... And civic is in there too. BMW is the only luxury one. Lot of people are environmentally conscious and wouldn't buy an ice luxury car but would buy a Tesla. At least that seems to be the case with the model 3.

 

[swotam]

From Tesla's page: "Average pricing information is provided below and specific pricing for each Supercharger location is shown in the navigation application on the vehicle touchscreen."

When I check my touchscreen all I see are the idle-time rates for the SC location. Charging fees are not shown. Mind you, this may be due to the fact than I’m currently getting 6 months free Supercharging due to using a friends referral code...

 

[bijan]

When I check my touchscreen all I see are the idle-time rates for the SC location. Charging fees are not shown. Mind you, this may be due to the fact than I’m currently getting 6 months free Supercharging due to using a friends referral code...

Probably due to the free supercharging. I see the rates. They vary by individual sites. I think highest I've seen around here is $0.55 and lowest $0.48 for the higher tier (and about half that for lower tier). But I've only checked a handful.

 

[ben1628]

Supercharging is for travel, the only problem is lack of stations and time to charge.

If they come out with more version 3 I am all for it

 

[iMoe]

Some very good and thoughtful points here. 2019 will be even more exciting and it will be interesting to watch the market decide what's important, assuming charging costs are the same as gas, owning an EV or an ICE. Tesla is no longer solo here and China, as usual, will go big and tip the scale or get bored and move on.

As my grampa once said, it's a great time to be alive (back then they fed all the locusts to the chicken and the eggs were the size of my head ).

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

These are the top 5 trade ins for the model 3:

• Toyota Prius.
• BMW 3-Series.
• Honda Accord.
• Honda Civic.
• Nissan Leaf.

Number 1 is the Prius... And civic is in there too. BMW is the only luxury one. Lot of people are environmentally conscious and wouldn't buy an ice luxury car but would buy a Tesla. At least that seems to be the case with the model 3.

I went from a 2018 Civic to Model 3 because it made both economical and environmental sense over the life of the car when compared to a similar ICE vehicle in this price range.

But then again, I wouldn't have gotten the Model 3 if it weren't an electric car

 

[sandpiper]

Tesla will have difficult time convincing people buying the standard 3 to pay @ gas prices with the inconvenience of SC

That would be more true if people didn't charge at home, the vast majority of the time. Having to pay for the equivalent of gas, while on long trips... meh.

 

[Funkmobile]

These are the top 5 trade ins for the model 3:

• Toyota Prius.
• BMW 3-Series.
• Honda Accord.
• Honda Civic.
• Nissan Leaf.

Number 1 is the Prius... And civic is in there too. BMW is the only luxury one. Lot of people are environmentally conscious and wouldn't buy an ice luxury car but would buy a Tesla. At least that seems to be the case with the model 3.

The list of trade-ins is more indicative of buyers who are looking for value for the dollar (whether it be functionality or environmental friendly). Model 3 hits a lot of the key buying points for this segment.

 

[oakvillemike]

Solid meh from me too. If the marginal extra cost is bothering you, try things like staying at hotels that have HPWCs and charging stations - helps offset a bit of the Supercharger need. But a few extra bucks for convenience, and a fun, less stressful, much more safe drive? Worth it.

 

[adaptabl]

These are the top 5 trade ins for the model 3:

• Toyota Prius.
• BMW 3-Series.
• Honda Accord.
• Honda Civic.
• Nissan Leaf.

Number 1 is the Prius... And civic is in there too. BMW is the only luxury one. Lot of people are environmentally conscious and wouldn't buy an ice luxury car but would buy a Tesla. At least that seems to be the case with the model 3.

Those are the top non Tesla trades. I don't think the complete list was released.

 

[Darscot]

How did this conversation make the assumption that super charging is similar to the cost of gas. Its not even close, if for some reason you only super charge from 85-100% and get the worst possible situation you might be able to get close to the price of gas. Every other situation its way cheaper.

 

[adaptabl]

How did this conversation make the assumption that super charging is similar to the cost of gas. Its not even close, if for some reason you only super charge from 85-100% and get the worst possible situation you might be able to get close to the price of gas. Every other situation its way cheaper.

This just happened to me: paid about $8 for 135km of rated range. I was just supercharging to test something (cable won't unlock manually). I usually charge on roadtrips so battery is warm and I get higher rate of charge. But this was after stopping for dinner for about an hour and a half.

Do the math. $8.00 is only 16 minutes.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

For the winter conditions, it's quite close to an ICE car for cost per km. I charged for 107kms for $6.50 on Saturday, most of it in the lower tier pricing because of the cold and sharing the SC with four other cars.

6.50/107 = 0.0607c / km

2018 Honda Civic (Combined) = 8/100 km > $1.00 / L for gas > 8.00/100 = 0.08c / km... Civic on the highway can achieve 6L / 100km so the cost of fuel is the same *under very specific conditions.

Come warmer months and Aero wheels, the Model 3 slams it home on per km cost while every ICE car has it's fuel cost increased due to fuel prices inflating in the warmer months.

The only argument for winter ICE is the range.

 

[swotam]

How did this conversation make the assumption that super charging is similar to the cost of gas. Its not even close, if for some reason you only super charge from 85-100% and get the worst possible situation you might be able to get close to the price of gas. Every other situation its way cheaper.

Some seem to be equating the increased cost of supercharging to the cost to drive an economy car the same distance, which may be a valid argument depending on factors such as winter gas pricing, reduced battery efficiency due to cold weather, etc. If your only charging option is Supercharging then your cost savings will be minimal. That assumption doesn't hold up as well if you assume home charging is going to make up most of the day to day charging and that Superchargers will only be used on road trips or lengthy drives, amounting to a small amount of overall charge cost.

Here's a real life example:

On Jan 1 I drove from Milton to Montreal and stopped in Kingston to use the Supercharger. The weather was cold (average -2C), I had 18% battery when I arrived and stopped charging at 85%. The charge took approximately 50 minutes, although if I was paying I probably would have stopped at 80% (so ~5 min earlier below 60 kW).

I currently have 6 months free Supercharging, so the actual cost was $0. However, according to TeslaFi, I spent 27 minutes charging above 60 kW and 22 minutes charging below 60 kW. The charge added 331 Rated Km. Based on the new rates, the charge would have cost me $19.00.

My previous car was a 2013 Mercedes C350 which required premium fuel and (best case) could get 7L/100Km on the highway. Premium fuel is going for roughly $1.27/L today. If I wanted to add enough gas to my car to go 331 Km I would need to add roughly 23L which would cost me around $29.

If I had a Honda Civic which takes regular gas (currently around $1.05/L) and could (best case) get about 6L/100Km then it would have cost me around $21 for the same range.

So Supercharging is still cheaper, although in the winter if compared to an economy car getting optimal fuel efficiency it's not much cheaper. However, in the Spring when gas prices go back up (as they always do) you can expect the gap to get a little wider. The incoming Federal carbon taxes will push gas prices even higher, and I believe they're due in April (?).

Of course, one might make the argument that driving a Model 3 isn't exactly the equivalent of driving a Civic, and perhaps that's worth a little extra in the grand scheme.

PS: I suck at math because, reasons, so if anyone sees anything glaringly inaccurate with my figures please politely point this out.

 

[Darscot]

I think people are taking one off situations, cold weather, full charging stations and poor charging rates and assuming that is the average. I road tripped my Model 3 for about 2500 km for $90 of super charging would have cost me $400 in fuel. This was before the rate increase but even taking that into account its way less. This whole worst case super charging vs best case fuel is silly.

 

[bijan]

I think people are taking one off situations, cold weather, full charging stations and poor charging rates and assuming that is the average. I road tripped my Model 3 for about 2500 km for $90 of super charging would have cost me $400 in fuel. This was before the rate increase but even taking that into account its way less. This whole worst case super charging vs best case fuel is silly.

The $90 is accurate for best case in Canada now getting optimal charging rate (always 120kW rate or always 60kW rate) and 100% efficiency in summer but it would cost at least $120 Canadian given real world charging rates vs tiered timed pricing even in summer. An efficient ICE car with regular gas would cost about $150-$180 in fuel. So still cheaper in summer.

 

[mociaf9]

PS: I suck at math because, reasons, so if anyone sees anything glaringly inaccurate with my figures please politely point this out.

I think the biggest issue is that you're comparing "rated range" on the EV to what's essentially the real world range for the ICE. That's a totally skewed comparison. If you want to actually compare, use the kWh delivered over that charging session divided by your average kWh/km for the trip--or use generalized summer and/or winter averages for baseline seasonal experience--to get the "real world" distances added instead of using the "331 km" figure. See how many L of gas it will take to drive that far and then compute the costs. If you feel it will provide better accuracy, you can reduce the ICEV's efficiency a small amount to account for winter driving performance too when making winter-to-winter comparisons. etc.

 

[adaptabl]

Some seem to be equating the increased cost of supercharging to the cost to drive an economy car the same distance, which may be a valid argument depending on factors such as winter gas pricing, reduced battery efficiency due to cold weather, etc. If your only charging option is Supercharging then your cost savings will be minimal. That assumption doesn't hold up as well if you assume home charging is going to make up most of the day to day charging and that Superchargers will only be used on road trips or lengthy drives, amounting to a small amount of overall charge cost.

Here's a real life example:

On Jan 1 I drove from Milton to Montreal and stopped in Kingston to use the Supercharger. The weather was cold (average -2C), I had 18% battery when I arrived and stopped charging at 85%. The charge took approximately 50 minutes, although if I was paying I probably would have stopped at 80% (so ~5 min earlier below 60 kW).

I currently have 6 months free Supercharging, so the actual cost was $0. However, according to TeslaFi, I spent 27 minutes charging above 60 kW and 22 minutes charging below 60 kW. The charge added 331 Rated Km. Based on the new rates, the charge would have cost me $19.00.

My previous car was a 2013 Mercedes C350 which required premium fuel and (best case) could get 7L/100Km on the highway. Premium fuel is going for roughly $1.27/L today. If I wanted to add enough gas to my car to go 331 Km I would need to add roughly 23L which would cost me around $29.

If I had a Honda Civic which takes regular gas (currently around $1.05/L) and could (best case) get about 6L/100Km then it would have cost me around $21 for the same range.

So Supercharging is still cheaper, although in the winter if compared to an economy car getting optimal fuel efficiency it's not much cheaper. However, in the Spring when gas prices go back up (as they always do) you can expect the gap to get a little wider.

Of course, one might make the argument that driving a Model 3 isn't exactly the equivalent of driving a Civic, and perhaps that's worth a little extra in the grand scheme.

PS: I suck at math because, reasons, so if anyone sees anything glaringly inaccurate with my figures please politely point this out.

You are not going to get 331 rated KM's in real world driving in winter conditions. maybe 70%. Regular gas is .88 here and premium is 1.03.

That makes the comparison much closer. Also I suspect there will not be a summer increase this year in gas prices. They may actually go down more with the surplus supply of oil on the market.

Although someone spending that amount on a Tesla is not that concerned with gas prices. The extra spent is more like prepaying for fuel. Similar to solar panels.