3sr+buyer
Active Member
Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.I bought the 10-30 adaptor from Tesla. Apparently 24A is too much here.
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Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.I bought the 10-30 adaptor from Tesla. Apparently 24A is too much here.
Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.
Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.
I presume that you have things set up so that the dryer and car can never draw current simultaneously? For example, either physically removing one plug and inserting the other, or with a device like the Dryer Buddy? If you have a NEMA 10-30 outlet, it's supposed to be able to take a continuous 24A of current (not more than 24A, because of the 80% rule for continuous loads). If it cannot take 24A of continuous current, then this is fundamentally unsafe and the electrican needs to remedy the situation and your landlord needs to pay for it.Thanks for the replies.
A few details. I use the mobile charger provided with the car and a Gen 2 NEMA Adaptor 10-30 to plug into the clothes dryer outlet. I only charge after midnight to take advantage of off-peak rates and avoid conflict with the dryer.
That isn't relevant though. A 10-30 outlet should be able to run a 24A continuous load, end of story. If it cannot, without something overheating and burning out, there's a code violation somewhere in the system. The dryer can, of course, draw up to a full 30A of current, so long as it doesn't do so continuously, but since it is allowed (in theory) to draw a continuous 24A of current for many hours on end, the outlet, breakers, and wiring should be able to handle this (in practice).A typical electric dryer cycles the ~3-4kw heating element on and off every minute or so to maintain the desired temperature.
A car charging on a 30 amp outlet is drawing 24 amps (~5.7kw) continuously, for potentially 8+ hours at a time. They are fundamentally different loads.
I'm not sure "janky 70 year old panel" is a code violation in and of itself. It's just the reality of OP's situation.That isn't relevant though. A 10-30 outlet should be able to run a 24A continuous load, end of story. If it cannot, without something overheating and burning out, there's a code violation somewhere in the system.
The landlord is responsible for making sure that the house is safe and everything is up to code. If the 60A panel cannot actually handle 60A, that is unsafe and needs to immediately be remedied. There are also laws about providing heat during the winter, etc. This is one of those things where the landlord doesn't have a choice -- the 10-30 outlet needs to be able to supply 24A of continuous current. If it can't, then something is extremely unsafe and needs immediate replacement. A dryer load may not trigger this condition right now, but as things continue to degrade, it's eventually going to reach the point where the dryer can cause a fire.I'm not sure "janky 70 year old panel" is a code violation in and of itself. It's just the reality of OP's situation.
There's no practical reason why a 60 amp panel shouldn't be able to handle a 30 amp circuit. But, things get old and degrade, as we've no doubt seen here. The right thing to do is to replace the ancient equipment with modern stuff, but that's significant money and apparently something the landlord isn't willing to entertain at the moment.
I disagree. If I were the OP, I'd run the OBC at 24A continuously to make sure that something doesn't blow up, although I'd do it while I was awake and have a fire extinguisher nearby to make sure that if something does overheat, it doesn't cause a lot of damage. But you generally want to "stress test" your electrical system deliberately so that stuff doesn't start burning when you are asleep or not home.I agree that things will probably function fine again with new fuses, cleaned connections, etc. But I'd still probably reduce the current to something lower if I could get away with it.
An impassioned, principled response that is essentially useless to the OP for all practical purposes.The landlord is responsible for making sure that the house is safe and everything is up to code. If the 60A panel cannot actually handle 60A, that is unsafe and needs to immediately be remedied. There are also laws about providing heat during the winter, etc. This is one of those things where the landlord doesn't have a choice -- the 10-30 outlet needs to be able to supply 24A of continuous current. If it can't, then something is extremely unsafe and needs immediate replacement. A dryer load may not trigger this condition right now, but as things continue to degrade, it's eventually going to reach the point where the dryer can cause a fire.
I disagree. If I were the OP, I'd run the OBC at 24A continuously to make sure that something doesn't blow up, although I'd do it while I was awake and have a fire extinguisher nearby to make sure that if something does overheat, it doesn't cause a lot of damage. But you generally want to "stress test" your electrical system deliberately so that stuff doesn't start burning when you are asleep or not home.
Before I did my panel replacement and service upgrade, the wiring would get hot enough that the stove breaker would trip -- but only if I turned on all of the burners to HIGH at the same time. I asked if it was okay to leave it as is since I would soon be replacing the entire panel and all breakers anyway for the service upgrade, since I almost never use all of the burners simultaneously on HIGH. Electrician said nope, this is very unsafe and the breaker needs immediate replacement and the wiring should be cleaned off. The same situation applies here.
Update: The landlord hired an electrician friend of his to replace a few parts on the old fuse box. The electrician said to me and I presume my landlord that I should not charge the Tesla at home. Should I accept this or fight it?
Who do you think is gonna win if there's a fire after there's written documentation that the landlord was made aware of, and then ignored, a safety issue with the electrical panel? I've got a guess. And by the way, I've also got a pretty good guess what the landlord's insurance company is going to do if he or she submits a claim for said fire.An impassioned, principled response that is essentially useless to the OP for all practical purposes.
Who do you think is gonna win if a tenant goes to war over this with a landlord in today's housing market? I've got a guess.
...and by that statement, it's perfectly fine to charge at 24A on a NEMA 10-30 outlet.So I would just charge on a normal 15A 120V outlet (at 12A) and call it a day. They don’t really get to dictate what you plug into an outlet as long as you don’t exceed the outlet’s continuous load rating.
If the fire was caused by him charging his car, your guess might be wrong, since the tenant was warned by the electrician not to charge his car. At this point, IMHO, it's on the tenant to clarify the charging situation with the landlord, which probably won't end up with the go ahead to charge his car. At this point, I can't see any path to forcing the landlord to allow/provide charging.Who do you think is gonna win if there's a fire after there's written documentation that the landlord was made aware of, and then ignored, a safety issue with the electrical panel? I've got a guess. And by the way, I've also got a pretty good guess what the landlord's insurance company is going to do if he or she submits a claim for said fire.
Possibly another option would be to use something like this:I’d argue that the landlord owes you a functional electrical system, that can safely supply power to devices and appliances plugged in at the property.
With that said, the dryer outlet, was not intended for EV charging and may not be able to deal with a continuous load on it.
So I would just charge on a normal 15A 120V outlet (at 12A) and call it a day. They don’t really get to dictate what you plug into an outlet as long as you don’t exceed the outlet’s continuous load rating.
"Update: The landlord hired an electrician friend of his to replace a few parts on the old fuse box."Who do you think is gonna win if there's a fire after there's written documentation that the landlord was made aware of, and then ignored, a safety issue with the electrical panel?
That's irrelevant unless the fire was started by the car (but if that happened, the renter's insurance should kick in). There is nothing in any electrical code that says it's ok to draw 24A from a 10-30 for the purposes of running a dryer or air conditioner but charging a car is forbidden.If the fire was caused by him charging his car, your guess might be wrong, since the tenant was warned by the electrician not to charge his car.
We need the OP to chime in here. OP seems to be hesitant about charging at 24A, but if the panel, wiring, and outlet are fully code compliant, there is nothing wrong with doing this. Also unknown is why the OP throttled the charge current from 24A to 22A in the first place; when using the 10-30 adapter with a 10-30 outlet, the car will not draw more continuous current than the outlet allows and the hardware in the UMC and plug adapter assures this."Update: The landlord hired an electrician friend of his to replace a few parts on the old fuse box."
Where does the "ignored" part come in?
That’s not quite true.. NEC 625 has specific requirements for outlets used for EV charging.That's irrelevant unless the fire was started by the car (but if that happened, the renter's insurance should kick in). There is nothing in any electrical code that says it's ok to draw 24A from a 10-30 for the purposes of running a dryer or air conditioner but charging a car is forbidden.
Thanks. By "fight" I mean argue/negotiate. Like, would it be okay to still charge but plug into 110 outlet?You also mentioned:
I am not a lawyer (not even close) but I am not sure how you can "fight" this, so to speak. You rent the home, and presumably the landlord is the owner of the property. It seems to me that, they would be within their rights to say to you:
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"It appears that a subject matter expert (electrician) has determined that the home does not currently support electric vehicle charging. If you would like to charge here, this is the list of upgrades to the electrical system that will need to be made. Since this will be in support of you charging your car, if you desire this, you will need to bear this cost. Let me know how you would like to proceed".
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(or something like that)
Your only recourse at that point would seem to be to either (1) pay for upgrades (which if extensive doesnt make much sense at a property you rent, (2), Not charge there and deal with finding charging, or (3) not charge there and deal with finding charging, then move to someplace that supports charging.
Like I said, not a lawyer or anything like that at all, it just seems to me that the owner of the property gets to dictate how repairs or upgrades get done as long as there are no code violations, so not sure how much "fighting" you can do here.
Okay but nothing in there prohibits using a NEMA 10-30 outlet @ 24A.That’s not quite true.. NEC 625 has specific requirements for outlets used for EV charging.