Car features as a service

[Zilla91]

You know what? I would happily subscribe for EAP for the few times a year I’d use it over paying over 3k upfront for it as I’m sure it would cost me less over to 2/3 years I own the car.

Say heated seats and steering wheel cost £5 a month while optioning it up front costs £500 then, again, you’ll be better off subscribing for the winter and then not paying for it in the summer.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

How many people are leasing or have it as a company car and are moaning about the idea? It’s effectively the same thing.

 

[095179005]

strange one. I remember when the read seat heaters were enabled. I bought mine having it confirmed that they would be in there, then everyone saying on they aren't. Oh well, I guess maybe there is a point like you say in your other post, that it is more cost effective to add it in rather than changing the line when assembling. Either way, I don't like this business model of asking for a sub, to heat your car.

What is next, asking for a sub for new tyres/wheels just in case they tear?

Well no, the thing is that the "issue" is only on the SR+, because the LR and P trims have it included as standard.
If you want more features you spend more money to buy the higher trim.
What Tesla was doing was giving people a hassle-free way to upgrade their car if they had buyer's remorse.

Otherwise we can just go back to the old way of physically going into service to get things installed post-purchase.
Or, better yet, let's have Tesla keep all the hardware, but charge a markup at delivery because you didn't pay for it initially.
A nice surprise for you when you show up for your "seamless" delivery.
I hear all the time how people expect a "dealership-like" experience with Tesla and are thoroughly disappointed with the experience.
This'll totally improve the customer service aspect of Tesla.

 

[Dilly]

You say that but it does not tally with my experience working as a first and second tier OEM supplier to the automotive industry. Admittedly 20 years ago.
The manufacturers generally seemed happy back then to have any number of variations on parts if it saved them a fraction of a penny by say leaving out one wire from a harness.

My experience is in industry but 30 years ago. Back then, new designs tried to incorporate pre-existing components to reduce inventory. where possible.
Today is a whole new world. When you realise how much in our lives is software driven the opportunity for subscription based provision is a monumental moneyspinner. Like it or not, It’s everywhere.

 

[DeejUK]

What is next, asking for a sub for new tyres/wheels just in case they tear?

I saw on Fully Charged that there's a startup looking at this exact thing. The rationale is that tyre manufacturers are not incentivised to provide longevity - they make more money the less durable your tyres are, because you need to replace them more often. If you pay a subscription for your tyres, they're financially incentivised to make them last as long as possible, reducing waste and the amount of particulate matter that they shed.

 

[Zilla91]

looking at that BMW page, I would say it is money grabbing in its purest form, trying to keep the management happy by increasing recurring income streams, and doubtless adding to the purchase price of the car if paid up front.

This product development feels like it originated from BMW Bank GmbH and not lead by BMW engineering.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724593509464731910

 

[WllXM]

The more they're doing this the more we risk having 'jailbreaked' cars on our road at some point with crappy software and possibly flaws on safety features / driver assist.

 

[Jason71]

View attachment 990849

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724593509464731910

For me it depends if they are selling it for a one off payment or want you to subscribe to it.
Tesla has always had hardware in the cars that you paid extra to access e.g. FSD or acceleration boost.
and the the early M3SR+ had heated seats fitted but deactivated. Eventually Tesla offered owners the chance to access them for a one off payment.

So while I am not a big fan of fitting hardware that goes to waste since most people won't pony up I see a big distinction between fitting heated seats ( if its cheaper and easier than multiple specs) then asking people to pay extra to buy them retrospectively. and a subscription model.
I understand a subscription model for connectivity. There is an on going cost. And also for software features that are subject to ongoing upgrades and improvements but an ongoing subscription model for hardware already fitted to a car? That is where I draw the line.

 

[Durzel]

I'm ambivalent about hardware with software unlocks, for the most part, because it's very common in IT. I use Cisco kit daily where you can spend additional £thousands easily on licences, with the hardware being unchanged before and after.

I know people complain about Tesla fitting parts and then soft-locking them, which they did with rear heated seats for the longest time, but I can't get worked up about that given the above. If it's cheaper for them to do this, so be it. Tesla fit heated steering wheels on warranty replacements now, even if the car can't utilise it.

At scale it obviously saves Tesla money to fit the hardware, looms, or whatever and offer a paid unlock than it does to build each car in a unique way. I would not be surprised to hear other manufacturers doing this, with only the very expensive options being bespoke.

 

[Jason71]

I'm ambivalent about hardware with software unlocks, for the most part, because it's very common in IT. I use Cisco kit daily where you can spend additional £thousands easily on licences, with the hardware being unchanged before and after.

I know people complain about Tesla fitting parts and then soft-locking them, which they did with rear heated seats for the longest time, but I can't get worked up about that given the above. If it's cheaper for them to do this, so be it. Tesla fit heated steering wheels on warranty replacements now, even if the car can't utilise it.

At scale it obviously saves Tesla money to fit the hardware, looms, or whatever and offer a paid unlock than it does to build each car in a unique way. I would not be surprised to hear other manufacturers doing this, with only the very expensive options being bespoke.

I imagine the reason heated seats are the ground zero for this is that the heating elements must cost next to nothing and there are no physical switches so it is just the elements a couple of wires and a relay on a board somewhere and you save the logistics of having to have two seat specs. Seats are bulky to store and swap around on the production line. Not sure how many other features fit this category. mainly other heated items like wipers and maybe heated steering wheels is probably about it.

 

[aq42]

Back in the 60s and early 70s, price lists for Austin and Morris cars always listed the heater as an optional extra. I don't think you could actually buy a car without one, at least in the UK, unless there was a special order route. I suspect there must have been some kind of dodge, either to avoid tax or to make the headline price look lower than it actually was.

I suppose the difference between heated seats and FSD is that heated seats are a physical fitment to the car with no other functionality, while FSD is giving access to software running on a computer that is already in the car and has various other functions.

But 'renting' the sole functionality of something that I have bought and has no ongoing expense for the provider is not an idea I am comfortable with.

 

[WannabeOwner]

But 'renting' the sole functionality of something that I have bought and has no ongoing expense for the provider is not an idea I am comfortable with.

That's just the age old "buy now, pay later" isn't it?

 

[Jason71]

That's just the age old "buy now, pay later" isn't it?

No, because what he is talking about is a subscription so its buy now pay indefinitely

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

“I want to buy features outright on my lease car” is the logic fail some will effectively be saying

There are benefits to both methods - if you buy your car outright, even via finance, then I personally prefer outright purchase over a subscription services. If I leased or have a company car, the option price tends to be split over the term so a £360 option costs you £10 a month over 36 months, whereas as a subscription for the same thing is typically less per month

It does come down to whether you believe you pay less for the product without the feature enabled and can subscribe extra to use it, or whether it’s price gouging. If you believe all options are price gouging whether outright purchase as an extra or as a subscription then you’ll not like this whichever way you look at it.

 

[Jason71]

“I want to buy features outright on my lease car” is the logic fail some will effectively be saying

There are benefits to both methods - if you buy your car outright, even via finance, then I personally prefer outright purchase over a subscription services. If I leased or have a company car, the option price tends to be split over the term so a £360 option costs you £10 a month over 36 months, whereas as a subscription for the same thing is typically less per month

It does come down to whether you believe you pay less for the product without the feature enabled and can subscribe extra to use it, or whether it’s price gouging. If you believe all options are price gouging whether outright purchase as an extra or as a subscription then you’ll not like this whichever way you look at it.

you are right. if you are leasing the car then leasing additional features makes a lot of sense. Lease companies will often make you pay effectively 100% of the cost of extras and you only get them for the 3-4 years of the lease, so if the lease cost for the feature *3-4 is less than the normal purchase price of said feature then it makes perfect sense. I had not thought of it that way, probably because I have never leased a car.

 

[WannabeOwner]

so if the lease cost for the feature *3-4 is less than the normal purchase price of said feature then it makes perfect sense

I reckon there are some other scenarios

"Don't need it all the time" - not sure how that works for Rear Seat Heaters - unless you only SUB "per trip when I have rear passengers and it is cold"

No use to me, at all, but 2nd hand sale buyer might like to SUB for them (and would never spring to have the feature retro-fitted (assuming possible, and not "initial purchase / factory option only")

Paid for them, but never used them (ever had any OPTIONS like that?!!) ... so STOP the SUB once you realise.

Isn't BMW (or someone like that - Merc maybe?) going down a SUB route for lots of things that would normally be EXTRAS at purchase?

But I'm definitely doing some straw-clutching there ...

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I reckon there are some other scenarios

"Don't need it all the time" - not sure how that works for Rear Seat Heaters - unless you only SUB "per trip when I have rear passengers and it is cold"

No use to me, at all, but 2nd hand sale buyer might like to SUB for them (and would never spring to have the feature retro-fitted (assuming possible, and not "initial purchase / factory option only")

Paid for them, but never used them (ever had any OPTIONS like that?!!) ... so STOP the SUB once you realise.

Isn't BMW (or someone like that - Merc maybe?) going down a SUB route for lots of things that would normally be EXTRAS at purchase?

But I'm definitely doing some straw-clutching there ...

BMW, sometimes model specific, have moved it to an either/or model. You can pay a one off lifetime subscription (effectively buying the feature) or a monthly fee. I know some around here have a problem with choice but that seems like a sensible approach to me if you’re going to make it an option. And why not have choice? I wouldn’t be surprised if the others do the same

 

[Andywil]

Back in the 60s and early 70s, price lists for Austin and Morris cars always listed the heater as an optional extra. I don't think you could actually buy a car without one, at least in the UK, unless there was a special order route. I suspect there must have been some kind of dodge, either to avoid tax or to make the headline price look lower than it actually was.

I suppose the difference between heated seats and FSD is that heated seats are a physical fitment to the car with no other functionality, while FSD is giving access to software running on a computer that is already in the car and has various other functions.

But 'renting' the sole functionality of something that I have bought and has no ongoing expense for the provider is not an idea I am comfortable with.

I can testify that you could buy without a heater as I had one.
Not good in winter when the windows froze inside and out!