Car features as a service

[Zilla91]

Nothing is free in the Bimmer world even colours. i4 Drive 40 no longer supports the driver assistance package so only basic cruise control. You need to get the M50 for the privilege of ACC.

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Spreading misinformation again? Nothing to do with no longer supporting it and all to do with the chip shortage.

Or you use an obd dongle to code the upgrade in

Sounds legal.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Nothing is free in the Bimmer world even colours. i4 Drive 40 no longer supports the driver assistance package so only basic cruise control. You need to get the M50 for the privilege of ACC

.I explicitly stated the i4 50 which does provide a choice of colours for free.and you quote a different model.. my earlier point about many peoples thoughts on this will be influenced by their predisposition to the brand seems to be coming true

Nothing is free from any brand if we want to be literal about it. The point I’m making is things get packaged differently by different companies, Tesla include AP but charge for paint, interior colours etc, others might bundle other things.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

If it was just an 'unlock cost' fine, it's fair and simple, more cost effective for the company and means that the customer can unlock the added options down the line if needed which sometimes could help with buyers remorse - i've done it in the past leased a car with the middle option only 2 months down the line wanted the features of the top end model and having to wait for nearly three years to get the new model was painful!. My issue is with it being subscription based, why should you have to pay a monthly subscription to have heated seats or air con it's money grabbing pure and simple, some would say it could make the car cost cheaper - really with BMW?!? No they will keep the cars at the prices set now AND limit features for you to subscribe to.

I think your complaint is not supported. Nearly every option/feature has an outright purchase option as well as the subscription option which is what you seem to want

As said before, if you’re on a 3 year lease and half way through you want heated rear seats, you now don’t need to pay the full cost.. that makes it cheaper for you. Whereas if 3 months after purchase on a car you’re going to keep for years you wished you bought an option outright, you can also do this now.

From where I sit, it appears the best of all worlds. Don’t you wish EAP had this range of options?

 

[095179005]

I've no problem with it, FWIW. This sort of 'unlocking hardware that was already present' stuff has been going on for decades, as @GRiLLA's grandad so awesomely demonstrated! It makes more sense economically and either reduces the cost for those that want it, or increases the profit margins of the manufacturer, ideally both. When the overheads of allowing customisation costs more than the total number of actual customisations, it just makes financial sense. By paying for the feature, you're exchanging money for something you presumably get value and benefit from.

It's not a million miles away from paying for a bluray with bonus features on (they were already recorded, and it didn't cost the manufacturer any more money to etch the extra bits onto the disc), or paying Netflix more for 4K streaming (they already made the content, and whilst they incur slightly more compute and bandwidth costs, it's really not a massive increase).

I'd also ask people who dislike the idea - what would you do if you were running the manufacturing? You know it's going to cost more money to not build the feature into every car. You know if you give it away for free then you'll make a loss. You know if you increase the overall cost of the car, then fewer people will buy the car. So what do you do?

I don't dislike the idea, but here's what I do to shut them up - malicious compliance - new SOP for all SAs at final inspection will be to rip out the cables to any feature you didn't pay for.

Make it so if you want the feature after intial purchase you'll have to physically go to the service center and they'll splice new cables in.

Intel used to do exactly this with chips. I've no idea how common it is now, but in the 90s when I was a kid building PCs, a 486 SX was exactly the same as a 486 DX chip, just with the floating-point unit disabled (which made it rubbish at 3D games - boo!). The same justifications were given - it cost more to have two separate manufacturing processes, and by offering the SX at a lower price point they could cater to business users who just wanted to run word processors.

Well that's what my paragraph above is about - AMD had to physically laser off cores on Ryzen dies to segment their product stack, because their wafer yields were too high.

 

[Itidiot]

Like Tesla .... BMW will just upgrade all the options on any returned lease vehicles. Their "Approved Used" inventory will therefore be fully optioned... (The second bite of the cherry is now much sweeter, easier to sell and more profitable).

This will make it difficult for the independent second hand car dealers to compete and will wipe out private car sales. As BMW can value add at zero cost.

Defo. a BMW Bank product.

 

[DeejUK]

BMW will just upgrade all the options on any returned lease vehicles

Ooh, that's a really good point that I hadn't thought of. I wonder if car manufacturers are as salty about the second-hand market as video game publishers are.

 

[ACarneiro]

Anyone who thinks BMW will reduce purchase price is being overly optimistic.
The main issue is one of trust. And I don’t trust them as far as I can throw one of their fugly ass cars. I almost guarantee this is a way for them to charge twice for the same extra, possibly even three or more times if the car gets sold to different people over its lifetime.
Hard pass from me, thank you.

 

[Itidiot]

Ooh, that's a really good point that I hadn't thought of. I wonder if car manufacturers are as salty about the second-hand market as video game publishers are.

Another brick in the wall to stifle the competition, build the monopoly and increase average revenue per user/unit (arpu).

The real value in building the pay wall is to unlock £2k of options for "approved used" and not for consumer to add heating steering at £15/month ... ARPU.

Whilst the cost of the part has already been factored in... . Another reason to hate BMW drivers

 

[DoricJim]

Like Tesla .... BMW will just upgrade all the options on any returned lease vehicles. Their "Approved Used" inventory will therefore be fully optioned... (The second bite of the cherry is now much sweeter, easier to sell and more profitable).

This will make it difficult for the independent second hand car dealers to compete and will wipe out private car sales. As BMW can value add at zero cost.

Defo. a BMW Bank product.

Think I read on here somewhere that you could ask for EAP etc. to be removed by Tesla from 2nd hand stock to reduce the price a bit? Could be mistaken…

 

[Itidiot]

Think I read on here somewhere that you could ask for EAP etc. to be removed by Tesla

Now that's an off menu item I didn't know . These forums are great for bit of info like this.

 

[prabhu]

Spreading misinformation again? Nothing to do with no longer supporting it and all to do with the chip shortage.


Sounds legal.

Ok, let's see who is right and when BMW brings back those options that were removed due to chip shortages. And coding upgrades via obd is something well established in Audi and Bimmer forums. Ask me how to enable the high beam assist for free on a Audi later.

 

[Leejmoff]

too late

Software is different, it needs updating etc. Hardware already included in the car and then charging a sub after I buy it, is something I will never do. Same goes for Tesla.

 

[Leejmoff]

I've no problem with it, FWIW. This sort of 'unlocking hardware that was already present' stuff has been going on for decades, as @GRiLLA's grandad so awesomely demonstrated! It makes more sense economically and either reduces the cost for those that want it, or increases the profit margins of the manufacturer, ideally both. When the overheads of allowing customisation costs more than the total number of actual customisations, it just makes financial sense. By paying for the feature, you're exchanging money for something you presumably get value and benefit from.

It's not a million miles away from paying for a bluray with bonus features on (they were already recorded, and it didn't cost the manufacturer any more money to etch the extra bits onto the disc), or paying Netflix more for 4K streaming (they already made the content, and whilst they incur slightly more compute and bandwidth costs, it's really not a massive increase).

I'd also ask people who dislike the idea - what would you do if you were running the manufacturing? You know it's going to cost more money to not build the feature into every car. You know if you give it away for free then you'll make a loss. You know if you increase the overall cost of the car, then fewer people will buy the car. So what do you do?

how can it be cheaper to add it than not? seems strange to me. I guess it wouldn't be if they go and charge those who thought it would have been included as standard in the first place.

Either way I don't agree with it, and don't like it the practice.

 

[DM206433]

Software is different, it needs updating etc. Hardware already included in the car and then charging a sub after I buy it, is something I will never do. Same goes for Tesla.

So you'd never buy EAP, full self drive or acceleration boost if it was available, etc?

 

[095179005]

Now that's an off menu item I didn't know . These forums are great for bit of info like this.

Same can be done with FSD on inventory cars.

how can it be cheaper to add it than not? seems strange to me. I guess it wouldn't be if they go and charge those who thought it would have been included as standard in the first place.

Either way I don't agree with it, and don't like it the practice.

You streamline the assembly line when you have only one trim to make. Having multiple trims means different tooling and additional staffing to run those lines. And any trim that didn't sell means wasted space on a transport that could have delivered another vehicle.
Tesla doesn't make money until they deliver the vehicle to you

 

[Jason71]

Software is different, it needs updating etc. Hardware already included in the car and then charging a sub after I buy it, is something I will never do. Same goes for Tesla.

Tesla already did do it. The first SR+ in the country only had front seat heaters but it turned out the rear ones were fitted but disabled.
Tesla subsequently offered owners the option to enable them for a fee.

Early UK SR+'s were also fitted with front fog lights that were disabled. Not sure if they ever enabled them. If not I wonder what happened at the first MOT's since front fogs are not a requirement but if fitted should be working.

 

[Jason71]

how can it be cheaper to add it than not? seems strange to me. I guess it wouldn't be if they go and charge those who thought it would have been included as standard in the first place.

Either way I don't agree with it, and don't like it the practice.

The theory goes that say seat heater panels are so cheap that the cost of installing in all cars. is less than the added cost of having two separate parts which require separate manufacturing bays, different component parts, additional storage since two types of seat have to be in stock at the factory not one, more complexity on the line having to select the right part etc
I am not convinced but the extra cost may be small, so throw in a few subscriptions or later purchases and it could be easily be financially worth while.
I can see this working for seat heaters, steering wheels since the parts are very cheap but I think there will be a very limited number of hardware based features where the parts are cheap enough that that this could work.

 

[Dilly]

The theory goes that say seat heater panels are so cheap that the cost of installing in all cars. is less than the added cost of having two separate parts which require separate manufacturing bays, different component parts, additional storage since two types of seat have to be in stock at the factory not one, more complexity on the line having to select the right part etc
I am not convinced but the extra cost may be small, so throw in a few subscriptions or later purchases and it could be easily be financially worth while.
I can see this working for seat heaters, steering wheels since the parts are very cheap but I think there will be a very limited number of hardware based features where the parts are cheap enough that that this could work.

It’s a simple case of streamlining inventory and production. The cost and storage of extra inventory versus the cost of inbuilt components.
Not possible in every instance I grant you, but from a manufacturing point of view, it’s a no brainier.

 

[Jason71]

It’s a simple case of streamlining inventory and production. The cost and storage of extra inventory versus the cost of inbuilt components.
Not possible in every instance I grant you, but from a manufacturing point of view, it’s a no brainier.

You say that but it does not tally with my experience working as a first and second tier OEM supplier to the automotive industry. Admittedly 20 years ago.
The manufacturers generally seemed happy back then to have any number of variations on parts if it saved them a fraction of a penny by say leaving out one wire from a harness.

 

[Leejmoff]

Tesla already did do it. The first SR+ in the country only had front seat heaters but it turned out the rear ones were fitted but disabled.
Tesla subsequently offered owners the option to enable them for a fee.

Early UK SR+'s were also fitted with front fog lights that were disabled. Not sure if they ever enabled them. If not I wonder what happened at the first MOT's since front fogs are not a requirement but if fitted should be working.

strange one. I remember when the read seat heaters were enabled. I bought mine having it confirmed that they would be in there, then everyone saying on they aren't. Oh well, I guess maybe there is a point like you say in your other post, that it is more cost effective to add it in rather than changing the line when assembling. Either way, I don't like this business model of asking for a sub, to heat your car.

What is next, asking for a sub for new tyres/wheels just in case they tear?