Car Freaked out this morning!

[Paddy3101]

Model 3 Performance with Performance Package, AP+FSD. Got it a couple of weeks back. Generally, been really happy with it.

However, about 10miles out from work this morning, the car 'freaked out'.

Was on Navigate on autopilot, with confirmations disabled. Had the energy consumption graph up, and thought i'd see what difference it would make turning climate control off.

1) The energy graph then stopped updating. Hmm, I thought.
2) About 30 seconds later, the music stopped...Ok, bad reception.
3) The car was having problems keeping centered in the lane, but the road was rather bad, sub was low, and the lines aren't that good. Then hit a better bit of road and it settled down. Nothing too alarming, but got a little too close to the cars in the other lanes for my liking.

4) Then all of a sudden, no warning, no nothing, it braked hard out of the blue and started lane change to the right!!!! I did a shoulder check (Ride a motorbike, so that's automatic), and there was a car there, off the rear quarter. Wouldn't have hit it, but much too close for comfort. At that point I took over.
But no sound, nothing on the screen, nothing.

Coming up to my exit now. Indicate to change lanes. Nothing. No sound, not indicator on the screen.

Slow, down.

Then I notice the screen isn't updating the speed. Nothing on the screen is updating, no indicators nothing. And it's still indicating that I am on autopilot with steering enabled!

Finish up the couple of miles to work, ignoring the screen. Park. Hear the parking brake, but nothing on the screen changes. Still says doing 64mph, with autopilot engaged. I'm stopped, in a parking space, with a wall in front of me. And it stayed like that for 5 minutes, until I did a reboot.

Ok, I can understand the display crashing, and resetting going blank and then coming back up while you are driving. That's not good, but at least you know it's not working, and it recovers.

However.

Crashing, staying up and DISPLAYING THE WRONG INFORMATION, and giving NO INDICATION is positively DANGEROUS.

So, say the car had disengaged Autopilot at #3 above. I would have had no indication until it hit something, unless I had time to correct. I do drive with at least on hand on the wheel while on autopilot anyway.

Writing this down here, then going to be sending it to the Service Department who can find out WTF!

 

[T3SL4AFBruh]

Following for updates, that's scary as hell man.

 

[brkaus]

My energy graph on the IC screen (model s) froze a few weeks back. No other issues to report.

 

[Tam]

...Crashing, staying up and DISPLAYING THE WRONG INFORMATION, and giving NO INDICATION is positively DANGEROUS...

There have been quite a few reports of computer screen crashes into a blank screen lately.

You crash is a frozen screen instead of a blank screen.

Frozen screen does happen in a Tesla. Usually, a reboot would recover the screen again.

I thought computers should be very reliable by now but it sounds like we are still in 1980's with crashes just like the famous Microsoft "Blue screen of death".

In that case, maybe a computer-redundancy and screen redundancy should be implemented.

 

[afty]

I had this frozen screen happen a couple weeks ago. I had been parked, got in the car. The screen turned on but wasn't updating. I Googled for fixes and ended up rebooting by holding down both thumb wheels.

Maybe a week later, I had a much scarier incident where I was driving and all of a sudden the screen went blank. That was not good. I'm hoping these recent software updates address these problems.

 

[billh13850]

but it sounds like we are still in 1980's with crashes just like the famous Microsoft "Blue screen of death".

Even Windows 10 still has a "Blue screen of death", I just saw it the other day. Friendlier and prettier, with none of the hex gorp, but still just as annoying. FWIW.

 

[M109Rider]

Sounds like a scary account.
The thing with being one of the early adopters of a car and NOA, is that you need to be okay with being an early adopter / tester.
You disabled notifications, and opted in. You also handled it exactly how it should have been handled and you stopped something bad from happening.

I think we all need to accept that if you opt in for NOA and disable notifications, you take these risks.

It will improve, because of people like you opting in and using it.
You’re also alert enough that you prevented an accident.

You may want to engage notifications, until you build a trust factor back up.
Glad nothing bad happened.

 

[Brian's ReX]

Super glad it didn't lane-change into another car! Scary!

What version are you running? 2019.xxxx?

 

[Tam]

...Sounds like a scary account...

You can still have manual control of your Tesla with steering, braking, and speed without the computer's aid (no speedometer...).

The computer industry has been getting away with program crashes unless there's a grassroots movement to hold them responsible.

 

[Rsdavis9]

Took a 3600 mile trip from NH to florida(and back). Screen rebooted while driving 3 times. I have the early access program so I was on a test release. Always be vigilant!

 

[Paddy3101]

Sounds like a scary account.
The thing with being one of the early adopters of a car and NOA, is that you need to be okay with being an early adopter / tester.
You disabled notifications, and opted in. You also handled it exactly how it should have been handled and you stopped something bad from happening.

I think we all need to accept that if you opt in for NOA and disable notifications, you take these risks.

It will improve, because of people like you opting in and using it.
You’re also alert enough that you prevented an accident.

You may want to engage notifications, until you build a trust factor back up.
Glad nothing bad happened.

NoA doesn't let you disable 'Notifications', it lets you disable confirmations using the indicator. The car SHOULD still provide notifications that it's changing lanes.

Have selected both Audible, and Vibration on the steering wheel. Neither happened.
Is ALSO must indicate (flashers), before changing lanes. Didn't happen.
It ALSO indicates on the screen, that it's going to change lanes. Didn't happen.

It does still require confirmation (with hands detected on wheel) just not using the stalks. Since I have hands on wheel anyway, that happened.

I have no idea if the indicators on the outside of the car, were activated at the time, or if the car just changed lanes with no indication to other drivers. Given how close the car in the other lane was, and their reaction, can only guess that there was no indication.

I accept that NOA is Beta software. Understood. HOWEVER, the rest of the critical controls of the car ARE NOT in beta.

i.e. Indicators not working Manually. Speedo, not working, and displaying incorrect information. BASIC functions of the car stopping working. EVERYTHING inside the car, just stopped.

 

[Tam]

...BASIC functions of the car stopping working. EVERYTHING inside the car, just stopped.

There's no question that it's an urgent matter when the computer is frozen. Some would manually take over the driving and reboot the computer while continuing on with the drive non-stop.

It's illegal to drive without a functioning speedometer so I would manually and safely stop the car and do a reboot.

There's no need to panic. Unlike 2001 a Space Odyssey (where the AI computer HAL-9000 went homicidal and it was very difficult for human to override it) and recent Boeing 737 Max (where the MCAS went homicidal and it was a challenge for human to override it), you can have full manual control with your Tesla to override its computer's problems.

 

[favo]

NoA doesn't let you disable 'Notifications', it lets you disable confirmations using the indicator. The car SHOULD still provide notifications that it's changing lanes.

Have selected both Audible, and Vibration on the steering wheel. Neither happened.
Is ALSO must indicate (flashers), before changing lanes. Didn't happen.
It ALSO indicates on the screen, that it's going to change lanes. Didn't happen.

It does still require confirmation (with hands detected on wheel) just not using the stalks. Since I have hands on wheel anyway, that happened.

I have no idea if the indicators on the outside of the car, were activated at the time, or if the car just changed lanes with no indication to other drivers. Given how close the car in the other lane was, and their reaction, can only guess that there was no indication.

I accept that NOA is Beta software. Understood. HOWEVER, the rest of the critical controls of the car ARE NOT in beta.

i.e. Indicators not working Manually. Speedo, not working, and displaying incorrect information. BASIC functions of the car stopping working. EVERYTHING inside the car, just stopped.

What firmware version were/are you on? Are you sure the exterior turn signal flasher wasn't working? I was under the impression that when the MCU crashes/reboots, the in-cabin sound/display don't work, but the exterior turn signal flasher lamps still do.

 

[Paddy3101]

There's no question that it's an urgent matter when the computer is frozen. Some would manually take over the driving and reboot the computer while continuing on with the drive non-stop.

It's illegal to drive without a functioning speedometer so I would manually and safely stop the car and do a reboot.

There's no need to panic. Unlike 2001 a Space Odyssey (where the AI computer HAL-9000 went homicidal and it was very difficult for human to override it) and recent Boeing 737 Max (where the MCAS went homicidal and it was a challenge for human to override it), you can have full manual control with your Tesla to override its computer's problems.

Decided NOT to reboot while driving, once I had discovered that there was a problem. Waited till I could get off the freeway at the end of my journey.

The problem was there was no indication that it was mal-functioning, until the car did something at complete odds with the information of it's own accord, without warning.

However, like many aircraft incidents, including the Boeing one, the pilots being given incorrect information without being able to diagnose that the information is incorrect, and the plane deciding to do something of it's own accord based on that incorrect information, without informing the pilot, is very much like the Boeing problem. And a contributory factor in many incidents.

Didn't want to bring that up, and it's not nearly of the same scale, but has similar symptoms.

What firmware version were/are you on? Are you sure the exterior turn signal flasher wasn't working? I was under the impression that when the MCU crashes/reboots, the in-cabin sound/display don't work, but the exterior turn signal flasher lamps still do.

2019.8.5

The MCU didn't crash/reboot. It continued to display, it didn't reboot. Just continued to display incorrect information. Still said the NOA was on, when it clearly wasn't.

Thinking about it now, perhaps NoA had already disabled itself, and the braking/lane changing was really just full Regen braking kicking in and the car just free steering into the next lane, out of control. (Lots of un-even paving, that you have to actively correct for). I don't remember the usual 'grab' when you manually take over, but it could be me just not remembering that.

It's not so much the NoA not working 100%, which I now it doesn't.

It's the fact that the Basic information of the car failed, which you should be able to rely on.

 

[Tam]

...Service Department who can find out WTF!...

They typically say the problem could not be duplicated so they can't fix it!

Please update us on what Tesla will do.

 

[favo]

The MCU didn't crash/reboot. It continued to display, it didn't reboot. Just continued to display incorrect information. Still said the NOA was on, when it clearly wasn't.

Then I notice the screen isn't updating the speed. Nothing on the screen is updating, no indicators nothing.

My guess is that the MCU did crash and the display froze, as you noted. Typically, it will just reboot, but maybe there is a bug in the video driver, which could cause the screen freeze.

Thinking about it now, perhaps NoA had already disabled itself, and the braking/lane changing was really just full Regen braking kicking in and the car just free steering into the next lane, out of control. (Lots of un-even paving, that you have to actively correct for). I don't remember the usual 'grab' when you manually take over, but it could be me just not remembering that.

A plausible scenario. When weird stuff happens, and you have to take over quickly, it is easy to forget exactly what happened or what you need to do. When I'm on NOA, I make it a habit to periodically check the icon on the screen to make sure it shows what it's supposed to, and I make a mental note about what happens when NOA is cancelled either by me or the car and what exactly I would do in those scenarios. You have to be sure you are not complacent and are ready to do exactly the right thing in a split second. Not everyone is well-suited to operating this way, and it is a main argument against the way Tesla is rolling out these features. Hopefully, most people self-select out of using them until they (the people and the software) are better at the task.

It's the fact that the Basic information of the car failed, which you should be able to rely on.

On my last car, the (mechanical) speedometer stopped working correctly after the car was left out overnight in single-digit temps. After a few days, it started working again, but read low by a variable amount ever after. I've also had bulbs for various warning and status lights go out on previous cars. Even with the screen fully disabled on Model 3, you can still drive the car manually. Main loss is speedometer and audiovisual feedback for turn signals. If you do the two-finger reboot, it takes about 20 seconds to come back up. I practiced this a couple of times when I first got the Model 3 last year, so I wouldn't be alarmed it I needed to do it. It's not a big deal. Never had to do it since, although I did have one spontaneous reboot when parked a few months ago.

 

[OCR1]

When we bought our first Model 3 we purchased EAP and we were excited to let the car drive by itself. However, after experiencing a few near misses where it almost hit a car, I started to wonder if it makes sense to use it at this point in time. So on our second Model 3 purchase I elected to skip AP/FSD completely. After reading stories like this one, it confirms I made the right decision for me. I think Tesla will get there eventually, but right now I just don’t find it enjoyable to use the EAP features because I stress out more while I’m watching it drive than when I just drive the car myself.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

without being able to diagnose that the information is incorrect,

I don't know.... Specifically with respect to the speedometer: you're not driving in IFR conditions! It does not seem that hard to diagnose that the speedometer is incorrect and take immediate action.

I've had the speedometer freeze once on me. I just rebooted while driving (against the instructions in the manual) and all was well again. No biggie. I can pretty much tell what speed I am driving and that's pretty much all I need from that screen. I reboot while driving for exactly the reasons you describe - if it is malfunctioning, you may be missing functions ANYWAY. So it's good to do a reboot and get them back ASAP.

While rebooting you probably don't have turn signals (they don't make any noise at least), but overall the car seems to work fine.

I mean, I understand the desire for the car to be perfect, but it does not drive itself, and it also has bugs. Even without the bugs, it will sometimes try to hit people, so the specific issue of screen freezing and a possibly related poor lane change is not that different a situation from the normal situation.

As far as your fear of autopilot hitting something without your intervention - again, that's something autopilot could do at any time. So you always have to be ready for that situation, even if everything is working perfectly.

I understand the concern, but typically there are bugs with the software, and it will go through cycles of better and worse stability depending on how many features and changes they have made. It's the downside of software that is constantly evolving, vs. software that is only getting stability improvements.

 

[Paddy3101]

They typically say the problem could not be duplicated so they can't fix it!

On my last car, the (mechanical) speedometer stopped working correctly after the car was left out overnight in single-digit temps. After a few days, it started working again, but read low by a variable amount ever after. I've also had bulbs for various warning and status lights go out on previous cars. Even with the screen fully disabled on Model 3, you can still drive the car manually. Main loss is speedometer and audiovisual feedback for turn signals. If you do the two-finger reboot, it takes about 20 seconds to come back up. I practiced this a couple of times when I first got the Model 3 last year, so I wouldn't be alarmed it I needed to do it. It's not a big deal. Never had to do it since, although I did have one spontaneous reboot when parked a few months ago.

My last performance car didn't have any driver aids. No ABS, Traction, Stability Control, Air-Bags, Sun-Visors. And it was notoriously un-reliable. Sometimes stuff worked, sometimes it didn't, then it would fix itself when parked overnight. Driving wise, there were NO assistance of any sort, If you pressed the accelerator too hard, too quick, wrong surface, it spun up. Brake too hard, too quick would lock up. Turn to quick, or do the other two in combination, and you would end up facing the wrong way. But that was a limited production, hand-built car, purposely designed to be like that.

Putting this back into perspective, this is similar I guess. Just a different set of problems and symptoms.

 

[novox77]

The 2019.8.x series of firmware seemed to have introduced a lot of issues with the display. I've started to get the random reboots, the orange haywire spasms, and yesterday my efficiency counter remained at 0.0 for all values until I rebooted.

Stay vigilant; report the bugs via your Tesla account, and hope we get a firmware update soon that fixes this.