Carbon Fiber Rims

[Xenoilphobe]

Thanks Linkster! this is more good info. wow - that is a tight tolerance .500 on a articulating joint, do they rub when you go in reverse and turn the wheels?

NOVA does have crappy roads - you wouldn't expect that with the ridiculous tax base in Fairfax County, but I think the volume of traffic just kills the roads.

I agree staggered don't really provide additional performance, I have a summer set of 21's that are staggered for my P85+ and you can't tell a difference (just more watts per mile....), once the temps get below 50 degrees I switch them out for 19's with all seasons.

 

[linkster]

Here is a recent pic of my 20x8.5" Ronals with 245/40-20s that I had "cut" with a 40ET. However, a 19x8.5" wheel needs a 35ET to achieve a similar wheel to strut clearance. I experience no rubbing/interference while backing up with the steering wheel in the lock position which is quite common on many Ses even with OEM wheels and original tires.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Very nice - The Homestead. I haven't made the trip yet in the S.

 

[Roadrunner13]

Here is a recent pic of my 20x8.5" Ronals with 245/40-20s that I had "cut" with a 40ET. However, a 19x8.5" wheel needs a 35ET to achieve a similar wheel to strut clearance. I experience no rubbing/interference while backing up with the steering wheel in the lock position which is quite common on many Ses even with OEM wheels and original tires.

I concur on the rubbing, my summer OEM 21" rub inside the wheel well when backing up while turning.
So it's quite common.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I understood the rest of your statement.
The strut clearance is impacted by wheel width & offset but not its diameter.
As your wheels are the same width as mine, i.e. 8.5", I would expect their positioning to be different as per their different offset.
I would expect your 40mm offset to be 5 mm closer to struts housing than my winter's with 35mm (also implies, your wheel's outside edge is inside by 5mm compared with mine)?

 

[linkster]

On the other hand, I'm not sure I understood the rest of your statement.
The strut clearance is impacted by wheel width & offset but not its diameter.

The wheel to strut clearance is indeed only "impacted by wheel width & offset" if the strut is verticle (parallel to the wheel). However, the front strut is not verticle on the Model S, but angles slightly outboard from the top towards the bottom so there is less clearance with say a 19x8.5 40ET than with a 20x8.5 40ET. My 20x8.5 ET40 Ronals have less wheel-to-strut clearance than my OEM Turbine 21x8.5 ET40. To achieve an acceptable wheel clearance on their OEM 19s (cyclones, 10-spoke, aeros) Tesla decided to reduce the wheel width to 8" and keep an across the board 40ET on all their wheels including 19x8, 21x8.5, and 21x9s.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

those carbon rotors seems expensive.

afaik tesla uses bremo brakes, seems like bremo also makes a 2 pice tesla caramic 'grand turismo' kit
at total 7900$ for rear+front.
still expensive, but half the price compared to racingbrake.com

I have not checked what weight savings to expect, and if the kit is suitble for 'clasic' or/and awd model s

FWIW, it's not all sunlight and joy in the world of carbon brakes. While this is but one data point, if BMW can get this wrong it suggests there's more to it from a system perspective than just a rotor swap. No idea if this applies to Porsche's version as well, but that demographic may be more forgiving of poor performance when cold and wet?

Remarkable commentary on the new BMW M3 overall, especially considering that advertising pays for their kids' braces and the mortgage, but Car and Driver has a long history of at least trying to tell it like it is (if one can carefully read between the lines). Despite being a life member of the BMW CCA, we'll likely never buy another BMW; far too tired of knowing service writers on a first name basis after a half dozen BMWs, and it's probably a financial nightmare owning one out of warranty.

Just FYI:

2015 BMW M3 Manual Long-Term Test Car and Driver

Instead, living with the M3 means enduring the drama of its carbon-ceramic brakes, which repeatedly frighten us when they get wet and pedal feel vanishes, even as BMW is adamant that they are working properly.

 

[lolachampcar]

Got a car with carbon ceramics and can attest to the wet issue. I'm always very careful when leaving the house after washing off the spray or having fully washed the car. The brakes almost feel more like a suggestion than a command when the rotors are wet.

 

[JST]

Speaking of Car and Driver, did you all see the test in the Feb issue of CF wheels? They did some acceleration runs on a Mustang GT350R with stock CF wheels, and then with the AL wheels that come on the non-R.

The difference is pretty unbelievable--more than a second quicker from 30-50 in a top gear roll-on.

Wheel weight difference is about 15 lbs per wheel (61 v 46/47).

Edit--they also note that the replacement cost for the GT350Rs wheels is $3433 front and $4053 rear. Each.

Makes the GT350R a crazy bargain, actually. Just don't break a wheel.

 

[lolachampcar]

I noticed a big difference going from stock 19s to the TRW 20"s on my P85D. I think the difference was just under 10 lbs per corner with almost all the reduction coming from the rim area (best reduction in rotational inertia).

 

[sillydriver]

I’m offering this as humble advice since I doubt I would participate in an initial group buy of carbon wheels if there is one, although I might be tempted if they turn out to bring handling benefits or if they look really great on the car. I don’t want to be the guinea pig for a durability test.


I would go with 20” wheels, which seems like a good compromise between 21s that are too easy to damage and 19s that seem like they would give up a little handling sharpness. Keeping the same section widths for the front tires (or all in a square setup) means 245/40-20s.


My P85D was delivered with 21” wheels and a square setup, but frankly I would want the looks of a staggered setup as long as it didn’t damage the handling. I assume wider rears would just add a little understeer, which isn’t a big deal since the MS is not designed for track days. And while this takes away tire rotation from front to back, the cost of buying new tires a little sooner because of asymmetric wear is small compared with the cost of moving to carbon wheels in the first place.


I would want to pick the rear section width to make sure tires were available in my favored brand, Pilot Super Sports. PSS is available in 245/40ZR20XL (99Y) for the fronts, and they also offer 275/35ZR20XL (102Y), which would be my choice for the rears.


This leaves wheel sizing. There is a range of possible rim widths, but looking at the Michelin website the “measuring rim width”, which I assume is what they think is optimal for their tires, is 8.5” for the chosen fronts and 9.5” for the chosen rears.


So that’s what I would want to get: 20 x 8.5” front and 20 x 9.5” rear. I don’t know what offsets would give best clearance, although my guess is 35mm front (5mm less than for stock 8.5" rim width 21" wheels) and 30mm rear (10mm less than stock staggered 9" rim width 21" wheels), nor do I know about any other parameters that would need to be specified.


That’s my two cents.

 

[Roadrunner13]

I’m offering this as humble advice since I doubt I would participate in an initial group buy of carbon wheels if there is one, although I might be tempted if they turn out to bring handling benefits or if they look really great on the car. I don’t want to be the guinea pig for a durability test.


I would go with 20” wheels, which seems like a good compromise between 21s that are too easy to damage and 19s that seem like they would give up a little handling sharpness. Keeping the same section widths for the front tires (or all in a square setup) means 245/40-20s.


My P85D was delivered with 21” wheels and a square setup, but frankly I would want the looks of a staggered setup as long as it didn’t damage the handling. I assume wider rears would just add a little understeer, which isn’t a big deal since the MS is not designed for track days. And while this takes away tire rotation from front to back, the cost of buying new tires a little sooner because of asymmetric wear is small compared with the cost of moving to carbon wheels in the first place.


I would want to pick the rear section width to make sure tires were available in my favored brand, Pilot Super Sports. PSS is available in 245/40ZR20XL (99Y) for the fronts, and they also offer 275/35ZR20XL (102Y), which would be my choice for the rears.


This leaves wheel sizing. There is a range of possible rim widths, but looking at the Michelin website the “measuring rim width”, which I assume is what they think is optimal for their tires, is 8.5” for the chosen fronts and 9.5” for the chosen rears.


So that’s what I would want to get: 20 x 8.5” front and 20 x 9.5” rear. I don’t know what offsets would give best clearance, although my guess is 35mm front (5mm less than for stock 8.5" rim width 21" wheels) and 30mm rear (10mm less than stock staggered 9" rim width 21" wheels), nor do I know about any other parameters that would need to be specified.


That’s my two cents.

Lola's advice of buying a 5th when ordering custom wheels has kept with me and a carbon fiber wheel group order would fit that...
So although expensive, if I was looking to spend that kind of money on wheels, a 5th would be a safe insurance.
This would eliminate any staggered setup in my mind.
I'd go square or not at all... the later being the more likely scenario for me also anyhow!

 

[sillydriver]

Lola's advice of buying a 5th when ordering custom wheels has kept with me and a carbon fiber wheel group order would fit that...
So although expensive, if I was looking to spend that kind of money on wheels, a 5th would be a safe insurance.
This would eliminate any staggered setup in my mind.
I'd go square or not at all... the later being the more likely scenario for me also anyhow!

Very good point! I forgot about the lead time.

 

[lolachampcar]

I've been nailed in the past with (nicer) rims where they went out of production. The TSW Nurburgrings are much more common and thus less likely to go out of production yet I bought a spare anyway. At less than $300, I could not pass it up. Anyway, the concern when you start spending really big bucks on rims is that you damage one and end up loosing the other three because the style is no longer made (with carbon, maybe now a different production method obsoleting the previous style) or the company went out of business. It cost me $7500 the last time so the lesson for me was learned

 

[Andyw2100]

I've been nailed in the past with (nicer) rims where they went out of production. The TSW Nurburgrings are much more common and thus less likely to go out of production yet I bought a spare anyway. At less than $300, I could not pass it up. Anyway, the concern when you start spending really big bucks on rims is that you damage one and end up loosing the other three because the style is no longer made (with carbon, maybe now a different production method obsoleting the previous style) or the company went out of business. It cost me $7500 the last time so the lesson for me was learned

Sorry to hear that. That's tough!

But it raises an interesting question in my mind.

I've read in other threads that often when someone has a wheel damaged due to a pothole or what-have-you, replacement is covered by their insurance. So did you not have insurance that would cover the one damaged wheel, or in that situation, where replacing one wheel wouldn't help, does the insurance company leave you hanging? Could there conceivably be a situation where the insurance company would wind up having to replace four wheels because of damage to one?

 

[lolachampcar]

I normally self insure toys. If I ding it, it is on me.

 

[Andyw2100]

I normally self insure toys. If I ding it, it is on me.

Fair enough.

But in a situation where an insurance company would pay to replace one damaged wheel, but the wheels are discontinued, would they actually then pay for four?

If there are insurance policies that would, it would seem that people considering these very expensive wheels may want to consider a policy like that as an alternative.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Order placed today with ESE, should receive them in April... I went with the same specs as the 19 inch TST 19 x 8.5 with +35 ET on all four. I chose a glossy finish on the exterior and matte finish on the "barrel" since it would just reflect brake dust anyway. Now I just need to order conical or tapered lugs (can't remember if the Telsa lugs are conical or not)... I can't wait!

Victor their sales consultant told me that first thing I would notice is the significant improvement in braking and significant road noise reduction. He says that all his customers rave about how quiet the ride is with carbon wheels... I will post more once I get them in my hands!

 

[linkster]

Might you and ESE be interested in fabricating your new CF wheels to accommodate a Tesla TPMS sensor, Tesla center cap, and a factory lug nuts before manufacturing to allow your Tesla specific CF wheels to become a "plug-and-play" install?

 

[FlatSix911]

Congratulations on your order. You should order the lug nuts that fit your new wheels, not the Tesla specs.

Order placed today with ESE, should receive them in April... I went with the same specs as the 19 inch TST 19 x 8.5 with +35 ET on all four. I chose a glossy finish on the exterior and matte finish on the "barrel" since it would just reflect brake dust anyway. Now I just need to order conical or tapered lugs (can't remember if the Telsa lugs are conical or not)... I can't wait!

Victor their sales consultant told me that first thing I would notice is the significant improvement in braking and significant road noise reduction. He says that all his customers rave about how quiet the ride is with carbon wheels... I will post more once I get them in my hands!

View attachment 107291

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Might you and ESE be interested in fabricating your new CF wheels to accommodate a Tesla TPMS sensor, Tesla center cap, and a factory lug nuts before manufacturing to allow your Tesla specific CF wheels to become a "plug-and-play" install?

I am almost certain the TPMS Sensors are plug and play. Not sure about the center cap- that would be cool. I did get the hub centric specs within are 64.1 mm - not sure if the center caps will fit or not. Factory lugs are most likely not going to fit or will extend way beyond what I would deem visually acceptable... will see once i get the rims. I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they can make the center cap work with the new wheel design.