SomeJoe7777, a closer analogy would be Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501. The captain reset the flight computer on the Airbus a320 mid flight resulting in a refreshing dip into the ocean.
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Caution: Driving while firmware is updating
- Thread starter Hometheatremaven
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- update while driving
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
ha ha ha. That's great. Ok, sorry, let's change it from Murphy's Law to Elon's LawEh, I did the update 2 days ago from 1500
Miles away. I’m on vacation in Mexico; Tessie is in my driveway. Worst case, I fix it when I get home. No big deal.
Edit: PS - re: Murphy’s Law ... “I represent that remark!”
is it any wonder why we can't have nice things.
First someone does something really unsafe they were specifically warned not to do.
Then some other idiot makes a video of it and sticks in on youtube to prove how much more important views are than not being an idiot.
Logical conclusion will be that someone else will try the same thing but crash the car then try to sue Tesla.
My faith in humanity is waning fast.
First someone does something really unsafe they were specifically warned not to do.
Then some other idiot makes a video of it and sticks in on youtube to prove how much more important views are than not being an idiot.
Logical conclusion will be that someone else will try the same thing but crash the car then try to sue Tesla.
My faith in humanity is waning fast.
Assuming that anyone will ever read (and heed) a warning message is virtually the worst solution.
A much better solution is for software devs to make their software behave better when the user takes it off the "happy path".
Warning labels are for the lawyers. When somebody sticks their hand into a garbage disposal while it's running and then tries to sue the manufacturer, the lawyer can say "But we posted a warning label. We're not at fault." OTOH, if there's no warning label, the idiot will say "How was I supposed to know I shouldn't stick my hand in there while it's running? There was no warning label." Thus we have ridiculous warning labels like "Don't eat the thumb tacks."
roblab
Active Member
Milli and I were driving along in Arid Zona when we got a notification about an update. We weren't doing anything. Sure. Go ahead and update.
It did. No issues, no worries, no problems. I can see no reason why an update can't happen while one is driving. If there were an issue, the firmware should block it from happening. As I've had my Teslas update whenever and wherever over near seven years and a cumulative 180,000 miles, I think I see irrational fear or unreasoning doubt here. Obviously one can update with no problems while driving.
Tell me about the time you had to pull over because the car quit driving during an update and I might believe you. Otherwise, it's all FUD.
It did. No issues, no worries, no problems. I can see no reason why an update can't happen while one is driving. If there were an issue, the firmware should block it from happening. As I've had my Teslas update whenever and wherever over near seven years and a cumulative 180,000 miles, I think I see irrational fear or unreasoning doubt here. Obviously one can update with no problems while driving.
Tell me about the time you had to pull over because the car quit driving during an update and I might believe you. Otherwise, it's all FUD.
What if it were the update to the brake controller - you know, the one issued after the Consumer Reports article? Would you really want to be driving while a life-critical system is updating?
If so, you’ve reached Bob Wilson “stay the hell off the road so you don’t kill any of the rest of us” territory.
p-f-g
Member
If the car move than it's safe.
You can't build a machine with a big red button saying "don't push, it will kill you". That's not how it works.
You can't build a machine with a big red button saying "don't push, it will kill you". That's not how it works.
p-f-g
Member
Well, with your name, I could be hesitant...
Brass Guy
Active Member
Every time I've seen the update message, it says something like "During the update you will not be able to drive or use the screen." I took that to mean driving would be disabled, and I still think that's the case. If you can drive, it's probably safe.
Worst case, you can always brake and steer, which are absolutely the most important abilities for a moving vehicle.
I don't think I'd try updating while driving. It's possible I'd need to drive unexpectedly after starting an update - I'd try if I had to.
Worst case, you can always brake and steer, which are absolutely the most important abilities for a moving vehicle.
I don't think I'd try updating while driving. It's possible I'd need to drive unexpectedly after starting an update - I'd try if I had to.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
it absolves them of responsibility for your negligence. by the same token, shampoo manufacturers may get their point across if they spoke to each of us one on one, but the "not to be used internally" warning will have to do.
FourOhFour
HTTP Error
The car knows what the update contains and what components will be updated. I'd argue if nothing safety-critical is being updated, the update *should* allow (but perhaps discourage) driving. You never know when that dam upstream is going to fail or some dummy starts a forest fire and you are given an evacuation order... the amount of time the car cannot be driven should be minimized.
I suppose it's possible the car already does this, but I'm not about to try driving during every update just to see if it'll sometimes say "no".
Yeah, I really want the car at home so I can spend two days on the phone with Tesla there and not in a parking lot or wait for the flatbed to drag it to Tyson’s so they can ignore it for a week. <shudder>
GF is going to a conference 8 hours away in the 3. She has forbade me from updating her car for the duration. Ooookay.... it only screwed it up totally once.....
GF is going to a conference 8 hours away in the 3. She has forbade me from updating her car for the duration. Ooookay.... it only screwed it up totally once.....
Does anyone know what the mechanics of an update are? I couldn't find anything on it. I would assume that a software update consists of 3 to 5 phases:
1. Downloading the firmware into flash.
2. Reading it back to make sure it was written correctly.
3. Rebooting the system.
Based on some observations someone wrote while sitting in the car during an OTA update (something I'm going to try next time!) there might be 2 additional steps, if applying the update set a special flag.
4. During the first boot after an update it might run extra diagnostics that are not run during a normal boot.
If the system has two flash areas each of which can hold an entire load, and the updated was applied when A was active and now we are running the new load on B; then if the update failed it might have the ability to switch back to A. In other words, back out the new update.
5. An additional boot might be required in the normal case (probably not; clearing that flag should be enough); but if it has the ability to back out of an update then definitely there would be a second reboot.
Going back to the original thread; here should be no impact to the user during steps 1 and 2. The reboot is the scary part I think.
1. Downloading the firmware into flash.
2. Reading it back to make sure it was written correctly.
3. Rebooting the system.
Based on some observations someone wrote while sitting in the car during an OTA update (something I'm going to try next time!) there might be 2 additional steps, if applying the update set a special flag.
4. During the first boot after an update it might run extra diagnostics that are not run during a normal boot.
If the system has two flash areas each of which can hold an entire load, and the updated was applied when A was active and now we are running the new load on B; then if the update failed it might have the ability to switch back to A. In other words, back out the new update.
5. An additional boot might be required in the normal case (probably not; clearing that flag should be enough); but if it has the ability to back out of an update then definitely there would be a second reboot.
Going back to the original thread; here should be no impact to the user during steps 1 and 2. The reboot is the scary part I think.
And of course you wouldn’t utter a word of complaint if one update caused your car to stall on the highway or at a traffic light.
How can heeding a warning from the company be irrational?
Seems more like rampant recklessness to ignore it and instead relying on blind luck because it happened to work before.
So true. I’ve spent enough time in my career watching technology break to know how true it is!!
You haven’t lived until a forklift drives through your multi-million dollar server ..... the night before a product launch.
I was reading this thread while cooking my Tide Pods (apparently eating them raw is dangerous because of E. California bacteria). I don't see what the big deal is. Control of a 3 ton moving vehicle is not critical to its safe operation.
Seriously though, Tesla needs to implement a few software changes to have end users click through 3 red flashing prompts with the confirm button moving to different locations on the screen. The option to update while moving might be necessary in an emergency but it should have the end user input some confirmation code - maybe some 4 digit pin or something. Most every computer nerd knows to not mess around when updating firmware on a PC. When you take a computer to a car you're going to have to dumb it down.
Seriously though, Tesla needs to implement a few software changes to have end users click through 3 red flashing prompts with the confirm button moving to different locations on the screen. The option to update while moving might be necessary in an emergency but it should have the end user input some confirmation code - maybe some 4 digit pin or something. Most every computer nerd knows to not mess around when updating firmware on a PC. When you take a computer to a car you're going to have to dumb it down.
