Tesla is going to start shipping the adapter, thus we will then be able to charge with CCS1, Chadamo, J1772, and with a Supercharger.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
But it's an inconvenience and extra cost for existing owners that they didn't have before and they didn't expect when they bought the car. That's why there is push back. They would much rather everything stay with TPC and only get an adapter if they want to use non-Tesla chargers.
Not going happen with there being so many connector standards (plus AC vs DC, yes I have seen people that can't tell the difference between the two and pull up to a station when their car only supports AC charging). People will need to know basic information about charging ports (just like people need to know basics about standard vs premium gas vs diesel).
Mockingbird
Member
So instead, Tesla gets to inconvenient future owners for years to come!
Great plan! /sarcasm
There will just be CCS1 and J-1772 and I am not aware of any CCS1 vehicle that doesn't support J-1772.
I also doubt that there would be many future EVs that does not support fast charging.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Except they determined it wasn't an inconvenience in the US. That was the whole point. The CCS network is still playing catch up with the supercharger network in most parts of the country. It's rare that it's an necessity. In Europe the case was different.
It will be a long while before everything is only CCS1 and J1772. You are counting eggs before they hatch. There are still a ton of CHAdeMO stations, and don't forget the TPC superchargers.
Mockingbird
Member
That's today. That's not going to be the case in the future.
$7.5 billion in government subsidy is a lot of money (not to mention private matching fund).
Also, I want to note that I did not said anything about going to existing Superchargers and removing TPC.
Rather, that CCS be added to existing Superchargers and that future Superchargers be CCS.
Existing owners can continue to charge at existing Superchargers without the adapter.
If it's going to be a long time, the sooner the transition starts, the better: less mess to cleanup later.
Um...J1772 and CCS1 will inconvenience Tesla owners for years to come if it is ever adopted. It really sounds like you rarely ever use TPC charging handles if you are making this argument.
J1772/CCS1 differs from J3068/CCS2 in a subtle but crucial way: the locking mechanism on J1772/CCS1 is actuated by a button on the handle and lifts a small latch that goes over little bump on the car's port and then slides into a notch behind the bump. If the vehicle wishes to lock the handle to the car, something descends from the top of the port and presses against the latch to prevent it from being lifted (or alternately, a hole can be provided just above the button if it's a private EVSE and the user can put a padlock through the hole, which also prevents the button from being pressed and hence the latch from being lifted). However, on the TPC and J3068/CCS2 design, the charging handle has zero moving parts, and has a notch on top. When inserted into the charge port, something descends from above the charge port and inserts itself into the notch, which prevents the handle from being removed.
Now first of all, with a button on top of the handle on J1772 and CCS1 that controls the lever, where is Tesla supposed to put its button that controls the RF transmitter that opens the charge port? Well, Tesla had a solution for this on its J1772 Wall Connector, which briefly went on sale last year before it disappeared from the store again: it left the latter out! Yes, that's right, the best feature of Tesla's Wall Connector and Mobile Connector was left off of its J1772 Wall Connector! I'm telling you, it's the easiest thing when you get home to just pick up the Wall Connector handle, press the button once, have the charge port open automatically, and insert the handle. Then before you leave, you just press the button on the handle once to unlock it, remove it, and put it back in the side of the Wall Connector, and the charge port closes automatically.
Second, at public EVSEs, it seems like every now and then, I come across a broken handle. I've only ever seen one part of these handles break, and it's always the same darn part. Can you guess what that is? Oh right, the latch. The button and bottom part of the latch are always still attached to the handle, while the upper part of the latch has broken off. And CCS1, by inheriting J1772's crappy latch design, also inherits this problem.
Just open up all superchargers to non Teslas and put a TPC to CCS1 adapter on the end of every supercharger handle and be done with it. At least when the latches break, it's easier to replace an adapter than the entire handle. Plus Tesla owners aren't going to be inconvenienced by broken handles at Tesla superchargers because of a crappy latch design that Tesla didn't even create.
Regardless of what happens, there's going to be a mess to clean up. CCS1, CCS2, TPC, and GB/T are not going to all coexist long term. They'll all continue to evolve and at some point, the world will decide on a single standard once EV charging stops evolving. But we're a long way from that point because manufacturers still haven't even decided what voltage they want to use.
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I’m still going with we have both a CCS1 adapter and TPC replaces Chademo on future DC chargers. With images of the latest Cybertruck prototype still using TPC it appears Tesla is digging in on keeping the Tesla connector long term.
It really wouldn’t be too hard to have both on a station. Once all or most Teslas get chips to speak the CCS language, what should it matter whether that’s over a CCS cable with an adapter or a TPC cable connected to CCS leads on a DC charger? It just adds convenience by eliminating the need to carry an adapter and it can be accomplished with the simple addition of a cable.
With Tesla continuing to support EV-Go adding their integrated Chademo adapter, this appears to be Tesla’s natural path forward. One day you’ll be able to just navigate to an EA station with on route warmup through the MCU then when you get there grab the TPC cable on the right end which coexists with a CCS1 cable on the left, plug it in then Plug and Charge with the CCS protocol takes care of the rest.
It really wouldn’t be too hard to have both on a station. Once all or most Teslas get chips to speak the CCS language, what should it matter whether that’s over a CCS cable with an adapter or a TPC cable connected to CCS leads on a DC charger? It just adds convenience by eliminating the need to carry an adapter and it can be accomplished with the simple addition of a cable.
With Tesla continuing to support EV-Go adding their integrated Chademo adapter, this appears to be Tesla’s natural path forward. One day you’ll be able to just navigate to an EA station with on route warmup through the MCU then when you get there grab the TPC cable on the right end which coexists with a CCS1 cable on the left, plug it in then Plug and Charge with the CCS protocol takes care of the rest.
Mockingbird
Member
CCS1 is what it is, and, that's really isn't a viable alternative.
CCS2 is near non-existent in North America
CHAdeMO has fallen out of favor and no new vehicle is coming out with it.
Tesla Proprietary Connector is, well, proprietary.
That doesn't really help. Tesla owners should be able to charge elsewhere other than the Supercharger.
CCS2 and GB/T are near non-existent in North America.
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What is this entire thread about then? All that's missing is a little thing they're selling in Korea right now. Or you can buy the Setec adapter or a simpler third party passthrough device if you're so impatient and your Tesla supports CCS, and then switch to the official adapter later on. Or somehow obtain a Tesla adapter now from Korea.
Mockingbird
Member
The official CCS1 adapter is out of stock in Korea.
Setec adapter is limited to 50 kW, and Setec and Tesla is going back and forth in a game of mack a mole.
The third party pass through adapter is expensive as hell.
For now. Not forever.
Well it emulates a CHAdeMO from the vehicle's perspective, and the vehicle limits CHAdeMO to 50 kW. So you can't blame Setec for that one.
If you can afford a Tesla, you can afford an adapter.
Part of the reason why we won't see 40+kW AC charging.
In Europe markets the early Model Ss had an expensive dual charger (rectifier) option that could do 22kW AC but it wasn't cheap.
Problem with going DC only is then you don't have the ultimate backup of a standard wall point of every garage, hotel etc.
And you still need a rectifier in a DC wall charger, and even a 7kW version isn't cheap. They are going to be multiples of a EVSE.
Now with ISO15118-20 (V2G in the CCS world) we might see some action, as I think it's more likely that the rectification will be done in the house, but I still think cars will carry chargers.
Also won't be as small as current AC chargers.
Eg.
Introducing the Highbury DC - Rectifier Technologies
Rectifier Technologies is pleased to introduce the world’s slimmest DC charger, the Highbury DC. It measures just 123mm/4.84 inches in depth from the back to front, ensuring owners can install the charger in tight spaces and can be mounted to a wall. The Highbury DC product range includes...
www.rectifiertechnologies.com
Any reason Tesla couldn't eventually just install both ports? Sorta like the GB connectors on Chinese market cars? Seems like that would be the best of both worlds.
Mockingbird
Member
You are missing the point.
Tesla has tilted the field as much as it can in favor of the Supercharger.
As things stand right now, while a few might be willing to jump through hoops just to get CCS to work, the majority won't.
Just to clarify in Europe they use CCS2 which is a better standard as it supports 3 phase power. I don't see Tesla shipping CCS1 cars into Europe.
Mockingbird
Member
3 phase power is for AC only.
Supercharger and other fast chargers are DC only, so CCS1 or CCS2 makes no difference.
Buying a small adapter isn't "jumping through hoops" any more than getting 240V charging working at home is (by buying a plug adapter for your mobile connector or buying a WC or buying a third party EVSE and using the included J1772 adapter).
Here, how about an upbeat, simple photo of two Plaids (and one confused Bolt) enjoying CCS and both of us being able to skip the supercharger line on race weekend.
Also in the most random of occurrences, I met @cwerdna in person at an EA station on the way home. I knew he was a nerd like me when he said “oh do you have the setec adapter?” as I was parking
Also in the most random of occurrences, I met @cwerdna in person at an EA station on the way home. I knew he was a nerd like me when he said “oh do you have the setec adapter?” as I was parking
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Mockingbird
Member
...it is, when considering that they don't have to jump through those hoops to charge at the Supercharger
There are plenty of hoops a SC user has to jump through:
- Setting up a Tesla account and linking it to the vehicle
- Going into the account settings and giving Tesla your credit card info (and getting a credit card in the first place, if you happen to be part of the minority of the population that doesn't use one)
- Keeping this information updated whenever your bank issues you a new card due to expiration or compromise
If you are too lazy to take these simple steps, whether for SC (what I mentioned above) or for CCS1 (buying an adapter and using it), then you deserve to have your vehicle be much less useful to you.
