Ceramic Coating - Yes or No

[Whyone]

I would without reservation go with a proper wax, and indeed i practice what i preach, however, I do love detailing.
Waxing is something your doing at home - ceramics tend to be done by businesses - even though you can do it at home and anything done by someone else means you have no control over the quality of application.

Wax, I use R222 even though I do have access to Zymol Vintage wax - the difference in price R222 = £60, Zymol = £2400 - after years of detailing I really cant find any difference between the two products.
If you prep your car right just the once and apply the wax you will be stunned by the results and going forwards the 6 monthly application of wax (I do it just before and just after Winter each year) will be less than a days work and the easiest/quickest way of doing it is with a (DA) orbital polisher, a soft pad and meguires 80 speed glaze. A DA polisher is safe to use even for a complete novice and you wont burn paint or wear through on swage lines - bugger all to be afraid of - I use a DA but do have a rotary, simply because the DA is lovely to use, the rotary is an absolute pig plus high points/swage lines its so easy to overheat the paint and burn through - only used by me for really bad areas as its a lot quicker to sort out the paint correction needed.

Paint has a level of hardness - the lighter the colour the harder it is, White is very very hard, black is super soft - darker colours suffer swirl marks far more easily and even if you wash carefully you cant avoid some light swirls.
To see those swirls - look at the panel like you would a mirror and look for the sun - all the swirls will be seen, swirls impact on the light refraction, DA polish the panel and look again at the sun - the difference is staggering - it results in a deeper looking colour and almost a wet look. a good waxing - a pea size blob of R222 in your palm, rub your hands together then massage it onto the panel - you will look a twat, leave for about 5 mins and buff off - do it panel by panel, don't leave wax to dry because its hard work getting it off and carnauba doesn't leave white marks if you accidently get it on plastic trim.

Chips - maybe have PPF to front end and if you don't have mud flaps do the sills and leading edges of the front wings too. Chipex kit for touch ups.

Completely agree with 99% of this Glyn - good stuff! I also enjoy detailing and use carnauba wax on all our cars.

Just a couple of questions / observations - I use PS21 / R222 for our day-day cars and Zymol Japon on my NSX....though I have also used this on my wife's red Fiat 500e and the M3 on occasion. My feeling is that the Zymol lasts a good bit longer than the P21...but this may be just me mentally justifying the extra cost!

Also, when you say car paint hardness varies (absolutely agreed) from light (hardest) to black (softest) are you just talking about Tesla paint of paints generally....if generally (IE across manufacturers) this is not my experience.

 

[init6]

I've had ceramic on two previous cars and while it does look shiny after a wash, the majority of that shine comes from polishing the car before applying the ceramic or whatever.
I've now gone back to (M&K) waxes as they can easily keep their looks and hydrophobicity for over 6 months, and more importantly I can change the look of the paint (gloss, clarity, etc) just by changing the wax. Once you've got ceramic on, the only way to get it off is by machine polishing.
I don't really see how ceramic is easier to clean. You may have less dirt, bugs etc sticking to the panels, but you still have to (lightly) drag your wash mitt across the paintwork regardless of the finish. With a long lasting wax, the extra effort to apply only equates to a few hours per year.

 

[init6]

Also, when you say car paint hardness varies (absolutely agreed) from light (hardest) to black (softest) are you just talking about Tesla paint of paints generally....if generally (IE across manufacturers) this is not my experience.

My experience is that different manufacturers tend to have different hardness levels.
I guarantee a black BMW will have much harder paint than a white Alfa.

 

[Whyone]

My experience is that different manufacturers tend to have different hardness levels.
I guarantee a black BMW will have much harder paint than a white Alfa.

Exactly this!

 

[Toblerone]

Good choice on the colour. I went with Gyeon and did it myself at home, mainly as I couldn’t be without the car for a few days if it went into the detailers.

I also did the glass roof etc.

As others have said, it’s all in the prep and the dirt does come off easier once applied. However the paint is soft. Even someone brushing past it can mark it.

I was pleased with the result. Here’s a pic of the winning colour for your viewing pleasure:

 

[yessuz]

useful as chocolate tea pot

 

[yessuz]

to be fair i could not bother with PPF either.

full car PPF costs more than respray it whole few years down the road...

 

[zoomer0056]

I’m slightly worried about chips

Ceramic coating will make your car hydrophobic. It will make your car much easier to clean. Run your fingers over it, so slick! Use a ceramic sealant after a wash to help maintain it. If you want chip protection the only way to go is PPF. Ceramic coating is NOT for chip or scratch protection. I did my whole Feb 2022 MSLR deep blue metallic myself (DIY PPF on 2022 Blue Model S). I topped it with Halo ceramic and follow up with a sealant after every wash. I detail it after every drive so it only gets washed once a month at best. Its been over a year now (just about 10k miles now) and the car is beautiful. The PPF has definitely done its sacrificial duty and protected against chips and scratches.

 

[GlynG]

Completely agree with 99% of this Glyn - good stuff! I also enjoy detailing and use carnauba wax on all our cars.

Just a couple of questions / observations - I use PS21 / R222 for our day-day cars and Zymol Japon on my NSX....though I have also used this on my wife's red Fiat 500e and the M3 on occasion. My feeling is that the Zymol lasts a good bit longer than the P21...but this may be just me mentally justifying the extra cost!

Also, when you say car paint hardness varies (absolutely agreed) from light (hardest) to black (softest) are you just talking about Tesla paint of paints generally....if generally (IE across manufacturers) this is not my experience.

I honestly cant find any difference between P21/R222 and Zymol Vintage wax, The longevity is based on water beading off for me, I completely ignore all the techy talk, the mix between yellow and white Carnauba etc - for me the proof of the pudding is in the eating and in real word application - I concluded that P21/R222 is a fantastic value for money product and visually it shines every bit as well as the Zymol - though I'm happy to accept that a laboratory would be able to test with a meter and other testing equipment that would prove Zymol outperforms the cheaper stuff - but its lost on me that's for sure.

Paint hardness, I sort of knew someone was going to pin me down on this one. Its a general thing, darker colours being soft and white being hard, Its just a good rule of thumb as a precaution against being too aggressive when washing or speed detailing a car - the not applying so much pressure thing.
It does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and so many things affect the eventual paint hardness, Thickness of coats, temperature and time baked and the chemical composition of those paints.
Audi and BMW used to have ultra hard paints - like an enamel, the newer vehicles are much softer than they used to be but they still remain much harder than many other manufacturers. Water based paints are softer than the previous Isosyanate, cellulose, or polyurethane paints and clear coats are fairly hard whatever colour they are applied over, but interestingly a hard clear coat doesn't actually stop you marking the base coat underneath - the force transfers through the clear coat and causes a depression in the base coat underneath. Its like a mosquito bite - its able to penetrate the hide of a rhino with whatever that little hair is called to suck the blood because its a fine point of pressure.
Typical cars have between 8 to 38 microns of primer, 13 to 38 microns of base colour and 38 to 102 microns of clear coat - though they all vary.

Ill accept your right re the BMW black being harder than a white Alpha.
It all gets too technical so my comment re black soft and white hard is a generalisation that errs on the side of safety.

In reply to @Bootneckshuffl R222 wax - I've found Amazon to be best price - around £55.
Polishing pads - you don't have to bother getting the 6 inch £15 - £20 a go soft or medium pads from a leading manufacturer as your paying for the name, buy a soft to medium pad - a decent one will be around £8 to £10 tops and as for an orbital polisher - you can pay hundreds for a meguires G220 or about £80 for a das one, they all do the same job, better still just look on facebook marketplace and pick one up for much less that's been used.

 

[B7779X]

If you can afford plenty of time to wash and detail your car, and if you actually do, the coat would last longer with some benefits (easier to wash, so on)
But if you can’t, it’ll last for just about a few months. It’s not that durable than you might think.

 

[garycat]

M3 blue, ceramic coated.

Wouldn’t bother again. No noticeable difference in protecting paint (didn’t expect a nano coating to protect so not surprised but others said it would) and I now add hydrophobic coating that seems to last 6+ months as part of final rinse during wash.

What product is that?

 

[Drew57]

I've never been convinced about the benefits of ceramic coating, preferring a very occasional wax finish.

Having said that, this picture was taken in April at four months old & up to this point only washed with tap water and a microfibre cloth (I still haven't waxed it yet). It always looks so good after a clean that several people have asked if it's ceramic coated. Compared to the clear coat on my previous white Model 3 the finish on this MIC car is in a different league.

 

[MrBadger]

What product is that?

Autoglym Polar Seal - applied as 3rd stage after pre wash and wash (I use the other foam based products in autoglym range) and before chamois.

Dont ask how I know hydrophobic properties last about 6 months

 

[init6]

Autoglym Polar Seal - applied as 3rd stage after pre wash and wash (I use the other foam based products in autoglym range) and before chamois.

Dont ask how I know hydrophobic properties last about 6 months

I was going to say there are lots of them, but Polar is the one I'd recommend as well.

 

[gangzoom]

Wax or ceramic coating aren’t going to protect you from stone chips. You’ll need PPF for that

I had ceramic coating applied to the car when I first bought in 2017. I agree it doesn't offer a physical protection but speaking of stone chips, I did the bi-annual wash yesterday and was amazed to find just one obvious chip in the paint work (and NO parking dents).

My previous BMW, Nissan and even my wife's current Lexus thats only done 34k suffered far more from chips. This is despite me really not looking after the cars paint work at all, my daughter had to distrub the natural dirt coating for me to wash it. The X had done 64k including multiple trips to Europe.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52891736812_ce9e30e9d5_4k_d.jpg

 

[Bootneckshuffl]

I honestly cant find any difference between P21/R222 and Zymol Vintage wax, The longevity is based on water beading off for me, I completely ignore all the techy talk, the mix between yellow and white Carnauba etc - for me the proof of the pudding is in the eating and in real word application - I concluded that P21/R222 is a fantastic value for money product and visually it shines every bit as well as the Zymol - though I'm happy to accept that a laboratory would be able to test with a meter and other testing equipment that would prove Zymol outperforms the cheaper stuff - but its lost on me that's for sure.

Paint hardness, I sort of knew someone was going to pin me down on this one. Its a general thing, darker colours being soft and white being hard, Its just a good rule of thumb as a precaution against being too aggressive when washing or speed detailing a car - the not applying so much pressure thing.
It does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and so many things affect the eventual paint hardness, Thickness of coats, temperature and time baked and the chemical composition of those paints.
Audi and BMW used to have ultra hard paints - like an enamel, the newer vehicles are much softer than they used to be but they still remain much harder than many other manufacturers. Water based paints are softer than the previous Isosyanate, cellulose, or polyurethane paints and clear coats are fairly hard whatever colour they are applied over, but interestingly a hard clear coat doesn't actually stop you marking the base coat underneath - the force transfers through the clear coat and causes a depression in the base coat underneath. Its like a mosquito bite - its able to penetrate the hide of a rhino with whatever that little hair is called to suck the blood because its a fine point of pressure.
Typical cars have between 8 to 38 microns of primer, 13 to 38 microns of base colour and 38 to 102 microns of clear coat - though they all vary.

Ill accept your right re the BMW black being harder than a white Alpha.
It all gets too technical so my comment re black soft and white hard is a generalisation that errs on the side of safety.

In reply to @Bootneckshuffl R222 wax - I've found Amazon to be best price - around £55.
Polishing pads - you don't have to bother getting the 6 inch £15 - £20 a go soft or medium pads from a leading manufacturer as your paying for the name, buy a soft to medium pad - a decent one will be around £8 to £10 tops and as for an orbital polisher - you can pay hundreds for a meguires G220 or about £80 for a das one, they all do the same job, better still just look on facebook marketplace and pick one up for much less that's been used.

Thanks for this mate, appreciated fully

 

[Bootneckshuffl]

I've never been convinced about the benefits of ceramic coating, preferring a very occasional wax finish.

Having said that, this picture was taken in April at four months old & up to this point only washed with tap water and a microfibre cloth (I still haven't waxed it yet). It always looks so good after a clean that several people have asked if it's ceramic coated. Compared to the clear coat on my previous white Model 3 the finish on this MIC car is in a different league.

View attachment 941239

Lovely that

 

[M1tch]

I ceramic coated mine myself using autoglyms kit. Did look lovely and shiny and is easier to clean. Provides absolutely no protection in terms of stone chips etc. I think I’m going to do another coat as the front end bugs are becoming a bit stubborn to remove at the moment.

Would I pay the cost of another kit? Yes probably just for the ease of cleaning

 

[init6]

When you say ease of cleaning are you referring to bugs etc that need repeated attempts to wash off?
I rarely have any issue removing bugs on my waxed car but I do snow foam before the wash. If I see a particularly dirty area then I will sometimes hit it with a bug remover first. I like to touch the car as little as possible when washing. I've had the same bottle of bug remover for over 3 years so don't use it very often.

The non buggy areas (wee Tesla software joke there) take just as little effort as my previously ceramic coated cars.

 

[M3noob]

Yes, but don't expect it to produce miracles. You still need to wash it and continually maintain it but it does make that slightly easier and it looks mint for 30 mins before the seagulls and pigeons do their business and ruin all your hard work.

The remedy for bird poop and slight scuffs is Paint Protection Film. Some insurers become aroused if they think you are wrapping the car (different colour?) but PPF seems to be OK with mine, at least