CHAdeMO adapter wait frustration

[TonyWilliams]

I don't think the concern about PHEVs hogging DC chargers is a valid concern either, as you can just have the chargers set to DC only and PHEVs won't be able to use them (no matter the connector). I suspect the more valid explanation is it reduces the connector/socket cost for PHEVs and AC-only BEVs (as they don't need large power pins). The CCS achieves with a single socket by offering backwards compatibility with the AC-only connector.

The Mitsubishi CUV plug-in hybrid will use CHAdeMO DC charging for its 20 mile range... it's not wise to make assumptions!!!

The good news for me personally (and I believe EVs in general) is that the Frankenplug is on a slow path to nowhere (anytime soon). Which means that the only two players (in the USA) seriously pursuing EVs so far will continue to have free reign with Superchargers and CHAdeMO.

The trump card will be that the small numbers of Frankenplug stations will be absolutely overrun with Tesla Model S/X/E with a simple adaptor and Nissan EVs that can simply add two DC pins to their existing CHAdeMO / J1772 combination for "native" Frankenplug charging (I can assure you that Nissan is considering this).

Gosh, about 100,000 Tesla and Nissan products with Frankenplug capability should make things interesting for the limited volume compliance cars with Frankenplug only.

 

[dsm363]

Mod note: Looks like they listened. The call for an adapter has been answered so can continue discussion here:

CHAdeMO Adapter coming this winter

 

[cwerdna]

Mod note: Looks like they listened. The call for an adapter has been answered so can continue discussion here:

CHAdeMO Adapter coming this winter

Yay! Thank you! Frustration can die down and maybe the small # of Frankenplug fanboys here will start changing their tune.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yay! Thank you! Frustration can die down and maybe the small # of Frankenplug fanboys here will start changing their tune.

No, they won't change anything!!! In the fantasy world that some live in, facts don't get in the way of rhetoric.

I would have guessed that this thing would have cost more money, so I'm very happy. Now, a simple Frankenplug adapter (maybe $650, like the Roadster adapter?) and all the "Frankenfew-Only(TM)" cars can feel the squeeze!!!

Shop Tesla Gear CHAdeMO Adapter

CHAdeMO Adapter

$ 1,000.00

Coming Soon

Take advantage of CHAdeMO’s network of 50 kW charging stations by enabling onboard hardware and purchasing an external adapter. CHAdeMO stations charge at the rate of approximately 70 miles of range per hour of charge with locations primarily in the Pacific Northwest.

This adapter is specifically for North American Model S. A separate adapter is required for European and Asian Model S. For Model S without Supercharging enabled, onboard hardware must be activated to use the CHAdeMO adapter. Every 85 kWh Model S is already Supercharging enabled.

Adapter
For Model S with Supercharging enabled
Available online this winter
$1,000

Adapter + Onboard Hardware Activation
For Model S without Supercharging enabled
To order before your Model S delivery, email [email protected].
$2,400

After Model S delivery
Available online this winter
$2,900

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yay! Thank you! Frustration can die down and maybe the small # of Frankenplug fanboys here will start changing their tune.

I guess you are referring to me. Well my situation is I'm in CA and the 200 NRG SAE DC stations are starting to be installed (one has been installed and operational even though it's not "officially" the same as what they would be doing for the other 199 stations).
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/03/first-sae-combo-fast-charging-station-now-open-in-san-diego/

So the CHAdeMO adapter was still delayed until the first SAE DC stations are out (exactly as I predicted earlier on).

When I get a Gen III, no way I'm spending $1000 on a 25kW (maybe 50kW if 70mph is a typo) CHAdeMO adapter when I can spend ~$100 on the SAE one to accomplish the same thing (up to 32kW@400V using the same size as the current $95 J1772 adapter; unknown how much a full power 100kW one will cost but definitely much cheaper than the CHAdeMO one). As long as the stations support both standards (which logically makes sense and probably will happen), I think eventually SAE will win.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...C-(Combo)-Connector-Adapter-for-Model-S/page2
http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s/products/sae-j1772

Like Tony points out, it's relatively easy for Nissan to add two extra DC pins to support SAE (and in high likelihood Nissan is probably considering this already), but much harder the other way around (either an expensive adapter or opening an extra hole in the car to add a socket).

- - - Updated - - -

The Mitsubishi CUV plug-in hybrid will use CHAdeMO DC charging for its 20 mile range... it's not wise to make assumptions!!!

That's exactly why that's not a valid excuse, given CHAdeMO doesn't stop a PHEV from hogging DC chargers either.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Like Tony points out, it's relatively easy for Nissan to add two extra DC pins to support SAE (and in high likelihood Nissan is probably considering this already), but much harder the other way around (either an expensive adapter or opening an extra hole in the car to add a socket).

I don't offer that idea to suggest that Nissan step away from CHAdeMO... quite the opposite. It's a simple tool to capitalize on all the charging options (like Tesla) when the Frankenfew cars only have one option that could be blocked by a Nissan or Tesla car. Let's face it, no compliance-only maker, which is virtually all the Frankenplug folks, is going to make a CHAdeMO adaptor!!!

Advantage... the folks who actually want to build EVs. While it seems important to you for Frankenplug to "win", my sincere hope is that a world standard does win, and the only one so far is CHAdeMO.

I'm not naive enough to think that will actually happen, though. They will fight over inductive and even higher power DC charging in the decade to come.

 

[dsm363]

CHAdeMO is hardly the world standard. There is no world standard. They had a two year head start will rollout but not supported by anyone other than Nissan in a serious manner and now Tesla via an adapter. Yes Frankenplug is only supported with compliance cars now but Tesla will likely also support it via an adapter and it is backed by many more manufacturers both US and European.

Either way, this thread has been addressed. There is an adapter on its way.

 

[Bipo]

Advantage... the folks who actually want to build EVs. While it seems important to you for Frankenplug to "win", my sincere hope is that a world standard does win, and the only one so far is CHAdeMO.

The truly advantage of Combo over CHAdeMO is max. amps: 200 vs 125. That's enough for me to discard the Japanese "standard". 50 kW is not enough power neither in the future nor even nowadays.

And the European Combo2 is spected to support 250 amps. So for me the winner is clear.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Advantage... the folks who actually want to build EVs. While it seems important to you for Frankenplug to "win", my sincere hope is that a world standard does win, and the only one so far is CHAdeMO.

Isn't CCS the world standard? CHAdeMO wasn't even an open standard (it was completely proprietary) until very recently when the SAE/EU applied pressure. That's one of the reasons I cited that non-CHAdeMO players were iffy about joining that standard. There was no indication CHAdeMO was going to go open until after the SAE announced it would not support the standard, and shortly afterwards, the EU charging recommendation that didn't include CHAdeMO. At that point CHAdeMO was taking a huge PR hit and they quickly started the move to make it a Japanese (JISC) standard.

And logically, if Nissan adds CCS to their car, they would have already "lost". At that point, every EV is CCS capable, but only a subset of EVs are CHAdeMO capable. That will give confidence to charger manufacturers and other automakers to back the CCS standard completely and the writing is on the wall at that point. As for the overloading of SAE chargers, do you seriously think the public (and automaker lobbyists) will not be complaining about that and asking for more SAE chargers if that happens?

The other scenario is if Nissan maintains CHAdeMO only and the way SAE can "win" is if the number of SAE cars overtake the number of CHAdeMO vehicles. I imagine this will eventually happen as EVs reach out of their niche status (and 100+ EPA mile EVs become common), given Nissan's really the only one contributing to CHAdeMO market share.

The last scenario is if SAE players give up on SAE, but as you say, it's highly unlikely.

 

[TsRocket]

My wife and I got our Model S about 6 weeks ago. It's a beautiful car. However, while we live in Seattle, we frequently travel to several destinations in eastern Washington state, where the charging infrastructure is not nearly as developed as it is west of the Cascades (or Sierras). On a recent trip with our gas-powered car, we made a point of checking out all the charging locations on several highways we travel frequently. To our pleasant surprise, there were many more than we expected. Unfortunately, the standard configuration at each these sites was one or more J1772 chargers, plus one fast DC charger with a CHAdeMO connector. Since Tesla does not offer a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S, we will only be able to use the much slower J1772 chargers.

I contacted Tesla to ask when a CHAdeMO adapter would be available. I was told that whether or not one would be developed depended on how well the Model S penetrated the Japanese market, where CHAdeMO chargers apparently are standard. This seemingly reflects ignorance on Tesla's part, that there is already an extensive CHAdeMO network in the US (at least in Washington State), presumably because most electric cars including the Nissan Leaf can use that type of connection. The person on the phone also gave the standard pitch about Tesla planning to build a nationwide network of superchargers, but this ignores the fact that they haven't done so yet and have even defaulted on their previously promised time for installing superchargers on I-5 as far as the Canadian border. In addition, superchargers will likely be located only on Interstate Highways and perhaps other primary roads, and at least in the western US, recreational travel can take one a great distance from Interstates.

I don't understand the reluctance of Tesla to provide such an adapter. In the first place, access to a much larger network of fast DC charging stations than Tesla does (or probably will) provide should be a strong selling point for the Model S, since it will eliminate much of potential buyers' concern over range. Second, if Tesla owners can travel further from large urban areas, because it's easier to charge, then people living outside urban areas will be much more likely to encounter Tesla cars in person and see for themselves how superior they are - again, boosting sales for Tesla.

If you are also frustrated about the lack of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S, please add a comment to this thread - I'm told Tesla pays attention to these blogs and that public opinion can make a difference to their priorities.

____________________
Mod note: Adding link to adapter to first post in this thread:
Shop Tesla Gear CHAdeMO Adapter

I heard from Danny, they are here! But we cannot order them yet ... I asked if i could be waitlisted, he said "not yet" , i think the Chademos will be $1000 (what isn't?) . Call Danny, Seattle, every day?

 

[HP832]

There are some things that actually are impossible though (esp. from a safety standpoint). The US Tesla connector only has 5 pins, CHAdeMO uses a minimum of 9. European Tesla connector has 7 pins.

The 2 power pins and ground pin make up 3 pins that can't be faked for any standard. The proximity pin is also shared among both SAE and ChadeMO.

For SAE, the only pin left is the analog control pilot. The digital signals go through the ground pin using PLC.
For ChadeMO there's still 5 pins left: 3 analog safety (1 "ready to charge" pin, 2 EV relay pins), 2 digital CAN bus signal pins.

The strategy for the European adapter is still relatively straightforward, have all 7 pins assigned to all the CHAdeMO pins except the 2 digital CAN bus pins. Then just have a component in the adapter to translate the PLC digital signal from the ground pin to the 2 digital CAN bus pins.

However, for the US version, you would still need to fake the 3 analog safety pins and it's iffy if that's safe and if it can pass safety certifications. If this is what's holding up the US adapter, then there might never be one made.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D5HTsDHEoF4/UFspUIESE_I/AAAAAAAAI-4/_6qf3WCFUHw/s1600/chademo-pins.jpg

But there is another option that's actually simple. And that's the SAE DC connector. It uses exactly the same 5 pins as the Tesla connector and JB said they support the same protocol. The adapter will be a simple pin-to-pin adapter (similar to the current J1772 adapter included with your car).

It'll take a while until dual connector (with both a CHAdeMO and SAE DC connector) stations are deployed, but once that happens, CHAdeMO will not be the only non-Tesla quick charge option. I've mentioned previously that Tesla's strategy may be waiting for those stations to come out and then pushing strongly for them. Then the CHAdeMO adapter would not be necessary in the US.

Look like the people at Tesla is listening to us. The adapter will be available soon. I will buy the CHAdeMO adapter, as soon as it is available.

 

[100thMonkey]

very happy to hear the news... the number of Fast Chargers throughout Oregon in particular will make it a destination for us next summer!

 

[ds2022]

You can now sign up to be on the waiting list for the adapter. I was tracking the webpage and it changed yesterday (see below). I signed up yesterday.

This adapter is a game changer for Atlanta. You can now travel north and west using CHAdeMO. Nissan is also installing the DC chargers faster and also in rural dealerships which helps with weekend trips to the gulf coast (Destin, 30A). Since superchargers aren't coming until 2015, this is a great stopgap.

I think this adapter is a better investment than dual chargers since it is less expensive, at least twice as fast to charge and there are very few chargers in the wild that are >40A.

For customers already taken delivery of your Model S, sign up for wait list and product updates by emailing:[email protected].

 

[zdre]

there goes a year of gas savings

 

[liuping]

there goes a year of gas savings

$1000 for a year of gas? That would be something like only 10000 miles a year in a car that gets 40 mpg.

There are not a lot of cars that look and drive like the Model S that get 40MPG and I drive a lot more than 10k miles a year.

 

[Gizmotoy]

there goes a year of gas savings

I'd be in trouble if I tried to justify anything about this car in terms of gas savings, even factoring in the replacement of my current 14MPG vehicle. I could drive that thing 300k more miles and still come out ahead. :scared:

 

[100thMonkey]

there goes a year of gas savings

small price to pay for substantial early adapter freedom!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

The truly advantage of Combo over CHAdeMO is max. amps: 200 vs 125. That's enough for me to discard the Japanese "standard". 50 kW is not enough power neither in the future nor even nowadays.

And the European Combo2 is spected to support 250 amps. So for me the winner is clear.

The current limitation is 125 amps, however the CHAdeMO specification is for 200 amps. I have never seen a 250 amp specification... do you have a link?

By the way, Tesla is already approaching 300 amps (400 volts * 300 amps = 120kW).

The winner doesn't look so clear, unless you're a Tesla fan !!!

- - - Updated - - -

... no way I'm spending $1000 on a 25kW (maybe 50kW if 70mph is a typo) CHAdeMO adapter when I can spend ~$100 on the SAE one to accomplish the same thing...

I don't think a $100 adaptor is on the horizon for any adaptor that can handle 50kW. But, I'm confident that it will be cheaper than the CHAdeMO adaptor.

Like Tony points out, it's relatively easy for Nissan to add two extra DC pins to support SAE (and in high likelihood Nissan is probably considering this already), but much harder the other way around

Absolutely an advantage that the Frankenplug only gang won't enjoy. I would bet big money that the world's dominant EV for the foreseeable future (maybe 4 more years until Model E) will offer both Frankenplug USA version and CHAdeMO. I wouldn't count on this until there actually are some Frankenplug stations (3 or 4 years), and by then, the LEAF and other Nissan CHAdeMO equipped cars will be able to use ALL public quick charge options in the USA.

Like Tesla's Superchargers, the CHAdeMO network will almost be Nissan's "private" use stations and both cars will be able to use all Frankenplug stations, too.

The future is looking real bright for the true EV manufacturers.

I've mentioned previously that Tesla's strategy may be waiting for those stations to come out and then pushing strongly for them. Then the CHAdeMO adapter would not be necessary in the US.

Tesla isn't going to "push" for anything other than their network. They don't push for J1772 currently.

- - - Updated - - -

CHAdeMO is hardly the world standard. There is no world standard. They had a two year head start will rollout but not supported by anyone other than Nissan in a serious manner and now Tesla via an adapter. Yes Frankenplug is only supported with compliance cars now but Tesla will likely also support it via an adapter and it is backed by many more manufacturers...

I highly encourage both Nissan and Tesla to build out their respective "proprietary" networks AND make their cars Frankenplug compatible. I think it's all but a done deal for both. The Frankenfew(TM) only cars built for CARB-ZEV compliance won't have a chance (but, they don't want a chance... just the hope of slowing down Nissan).

As to world standards, only one is the same throughout the world; CHAdeMO. The same protocol and plug in Tokyo, Chicago and Oslo.

 

[dsm363]

Mod note: some posts moved here. Please continue discussion in this thread
CHAdeMO Adapter coming this winter

 

[EclecticCitizen]

Moving my post from elsewhere to this one per Mod:
'Seems like they are walking back the delivery date month by month.

I haven't followed the store website closely, but just noticed now that the CHADeMO adapter pictures are different that they used to be. Is that a recent change? Might be an indication that they have finalized design and will start production soon. '