CHAdeMO adapter wait frustration

[jvonbokel]

A lot of the supercharger taper is due to pack heating. At 40-50kW the pack isn't going to heat 1/4 as much as it does at 100-120kW. 50kW is actually still under the 0.7C rate that most lithium-ion cells are charged at without liquid cooling.

I always thought the tapering was due to inherent limitations in the amount of charge the cells could safely take based on their current state of charge. If heat were a major factor, I would think Tesla would improve the battery cooling system in order to improve charge times. Also, across multiple Supercharging sessions, the power seems to correlate strongly with SoC. I would think if heat were the limiting factor, the power would correlate more to time since plugging in. However, I imagine my understanding of the battery pales in comparison to wk057's, so I'll defer to him.

That said, either way, I think the lack of taper on CHAdeMO is due to the lower power starting point. On a recent Supercharge session, the taper got down to 50kW only at the 70% SoC level, and 40kW at 80%. Many CHAdeMO stations seem to be rated at 50kW, and are often only capable of outputting 40-45kW. I would assume an S85 could take that rate all the way to 70-80% SoC, and then begin tapering.

 

[Cottonwood]

I always thought the tapering was due to inherent limitations in the amount of charge the cells could safely take based on their current state of charge. If heat were a major factor, I would think Tesla would improve the battery cooling system in order to improve charge times. Also, across multiple Supercharging sessions, the power seems to correlate strongly with SoC. I would think if heat were the limiting factor, the power would correlate more to time since plugging in. However, I imagine my understanding of the battery pales in comparison to wk057's, so I'll defer to him.

That said, either way, I think the lack of taper on CHAdeMO is due to the lower power starting point. On a recent Supercharge session, the taper got down to 50kW only at the 70% SoC level, and 40kW at 80%. Many CHAdeMO stations seem to be rated at 50kW, and are often only capable of outputting 40-45kW. I would assume an S85 could take that rate all the way to 70-80% SoC, and then begin tapering.

CHAdeMO chargers have a current limit as well as a power limit. I believe that the CHAdeMO specification allows for a maximum current of 125 Amps. This means that for a max power, 125 Amp unit, starting at low state of charge in the Tesla, the current will remain constant at the beginning of the charge, with power rising as the pack Voltage rises, until the charge rate hits the battery pack taper.

On my P85D, E-ticket ride, the 125 Amp limit hits at 73% state of charge, 392 Volts, and 49 kW. After that, the taper is the same for the CHAdeMO and a Supercharger. Different CHAdeMO's have different limits, different rev packs taper differently, and battery temperature will affect results.

 

[wk057]

I always thought the tapering was due to inherent limitations in the amount of charge the cells could safely take based on their current state of charge. If heat were a major factor, I would think Tesla would improve the battery cooling system in order to improve charge times. Also, across multiple Supercharging sessions, the power seems to correlate strongly with SoC. I would think if heat were the limiting factor, the power would correlate more to time since plugging in. However, I imagine my understanding of the battery pales in comparison to wk057's, so I'll defer to him.

That said, either way, I think the lack of taper on CHAdeMO is due to the lower power starting point. On a recent Supercharge session, the taper got down to 50kW only at the 70% SoC level, and 40kW at 80%. Many CHAdeMO stations seem to be rated at 50kW, and are often only capable of outputting 40-45kW. I would assume an S85 could take that rate all the way to 70-80% SoC, and then begin tapering.

Well, I've been doing some testing with some of the single cells I salvaged from the damaged module I have. I tried charge rates as high as 2C so far, which would be the same as 170kW supercharging on the per cell level... and the cell heats up super quick... possibly dangerously so. Certainly faster than the cooling loop could handle, IMO. After my fiasco with shorting a cell earlier, I'm doing these outside-the-box tests... inside a plastic aquarium-like box. lol.

At around 0.6- 0.7C (equiv 50-60kW DC charge) the cell seems pretty happy. Doesn't heat up significantly, but does get warm. However I'm sure Tesla's cooling loop can handle that easily. At supercharger speeds, ~120kW (1.41C) the cells heats up quickly, but slowly enough that I believe the liquid cooling loop could slow the pace substantially. My assumption is that the taper is designed more around this than actual rates the cells can take because I pushed 1.4C into a cell at 75% SoC without much issue, although the heating seemed more rapid.

I plan on doing a post with my findings on all of this once I get the data together a bit better, but, I think I have enough data to conclude that the supercharger taper below ~90% is more temperature related than anything. The cooling loop in the modules only touches each of the cells at one point on one side. If the cell is heating rapidly it only has a small portion of the overall surface area to sap away the heat, which would be impractical with rapid heating at high charge rates at a high SoC, and I'm sure the design considers and calculates this thermal data using actual internal resistance numbers for the cells.

 

[DFibRL8R]

Anyone who got on the reservation list after 3/18 got the invitation to purchase? We're so close to being "available"... (but it's still marked as "coming soon")

I just emailed my request on April 4 and was able to order today April 7. Not much of a wait list, that's pretty close to just being available!

 

[FPLPowered]

we're drifting off topic here :-/

Anyone who got on the reservation list after 3/18 got the invitation to purchase? We're so close to being "available"... (but it's still marked as "coming soon")

I put myself on the list March 30th and got the email tonight to order. I would assume that they have to be very close to being caught up by now.

 

[chuckd]

I got on the waitlist on April 2nd and also got the email tonight (April 7th). Sounds like they're catching up for sure.

 

[Rheazombi]

Received mine in the mail Tuesday afternoon. Yayy. Can't wait to try it out around Boston. Too bad every CHAdeMO here is at a car dealership and they all use the crappy slim chargers that are prone to overheating >_>

 

[strengthcoach4]

I got on the list 2 weeks ago, invite to purchase last week then shipping notification last night.

 

[jbcarioca]

The wait is gone. I asked to be on the list two days ago, was told I was on it yesterday, invited to purchase this morning, did so, and have a shipping confirmation and tracking number now. I wonder if the list continues to make sure they are selling to tesla owners since they do insist on a VIN number? Or perhaps they've worked off the backlog and have not yet shut down the list.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Waitlist is completely gone now - I just ordered it straight off the Accessories Section of the Tesla website.

Mike

 

[Klaus]

Mods: thread title update please ...

 

[dirkhh]

Mods: thread title update please ...

Suggestion: "1030+ posts about waiting two years for the CHAdeMo adapter to be available on the web shop"

(that is somewhat misleading... the first post in THIS thread is from May '13 - but strictly speaking we were only able put our names in the hat in Sep '13, so the real "wait" has only been 19 months...)

 

[Rheazombi]

Suggestion: "1030+ posts about waiting two years for the CHAdeMo adapter to be available on the web shop"

(that is somewhat misleading... the first post in THIS thread is from May '13 - but strictly speaking we were only able put our names in the hat in Sep '13, so the real "wait" has only been 19 months...)

Well, at least we get one! Imagine being a LEAF owner and waiting for Nissan to allow Supercharging adapters... (not that the car could handle it anyway >_> )

 

[freds]

I got on the waitlist for the CHAdeMO adapter and received permission to order exactly one week later.

 

[dirkhh]

I got on the waitlist for the CHAdeMO adapter and received permission to order exactly one week later.

And by now one can simply order from the web shop...

 

[Shooter]

Got my adaptor today. Just couldn't get it to work when I tried. Hopefully will work at the next stop!

 

[bevguy]

The waiting for Chademo is nearly over. I got on the list less than a month ago and mine is on the way to me now.
Which brings up the question whether Tesla increased production a lot or whether people decide that they don't need them after all.
In a year or a bit more they will be mostly a curiosity item as Tesla pushes out SC and Destination charger deployment
If and when the Germans get serious about BEV I wonder how long it will take them to realize their long range BEV are useless without chargers, and they don't have any.
Leaving them with the option to try to put SAE DC combo chargers all over the US and stay behind, or admit the Japanese (Chademo ) and Americans (Tesla) got there first and have the only viable fast charging network. A blow to German pride for sure.
.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

The waiting is completely over (at least for now). I ordered directly from the website 2 days ago (no waitlist, no emails to [email protected]) and I got my shipping notice / tracking number today.

 

[iHenkka]

Hi guys, got the CHAdeMO adapter in Finland for about a week ago. It seems that Nissan DBT CHAdeMO chargers give you only around 25kW (limited) and ABB and CIRCUTOR CHAdeMOs give you the full blast (44kW and over). This is definitely something that has to be figured out! Is it Tesla firmware that is limiting this or DBT?

 

[jerry33]

Hi guys, got the CHAdeMO adapter in Finland for about a week ago.

The standards for CHAdeMO are like any other standards: there are many implementations of the standard to choose from. Tesla getting an adapter to work relatively reliably at all is impressive.