CHALLENGE: Advertised Range Rating Discrepancies

[taylorogan]

This is for you engineering/math/Tesla nerds in this group. (I just called Tesla and asked them this question and they are stumped. They even "asked the factory".) Let's see who can answer this one.

In the USA, the range Tesla advertises across all vehicles is based on the EPA rating of 300Wh/mi. Here's the question: what is it in China?

Here is what I pulled from the design studio from tesla.com and tesla.cn.

It seems that Tesla advertises very different numbers for the same cars. For example, a Model S P100D in America, rated at our standard 300Wh/mi, is advertised with a range of 315mi. That SAME car, as advertised by Tesla in China, has a range of 345mi. That's 39mi (112%) more range in China than in the US. Moreover, the range difference is different for every model! So a Model X 100D in America has a range of 295mi, but in China has 343mi, for a difference of 48mi (116%).

First person to figure this out wins.

 

[JohnnyG]

I don't believe it is calculated at 300Wh/mi for every car, as different configurations have different efficiencies.

For example: I believe my P90DL is rated at ~315Wh/mi.

Also, each country has it's own rating mechanism. Here in the USA, it is the EPA. In Europe it is the NEDC.

 

[taylorogan]

I don't believe it is calculated at 300Wh/mi for every car, as different configurations have different efficiencies.

For example: I believe my P90DL is rated at ~315Wh/mi.

Go look at your car right now. I am on my third Tesla, and in all of them it was 300Wh/mi.

 

[TexasEV]

The premise of your question is wrong. Tesla does not calculate the rated range of each car based on a fixed 300 Wh/mile. It’s different for each car and battery. For example my S60 rated range was based on 285 Wh/mile.

 

[JohnnyG]

Go look at your car right now. I am on my third Tesla, and in all of them it was 300Wh/mi.

Don't need to. It is not.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla uses a different range calculation in the UK as well.

 

[Petra]

Go look at your car right now. I am on my third Tesla, and in all of them it was 300Wh/mi.

Nope, rated is 290Wh/mi. in my pre-refresh S70D.

 

[taylorogan]

The premise of your question is wrong. Tesla does not calculate the rated range of each car based on a fixed 300 Wh/mile. It’s different for each car and battery. For example my S60 rated range was based on 285 Wh/mile.

How do you know?

 

[taylorogan]

How do you know?

Here are three different cars.

 

[brianman]

Here are three different cars.

In your first and third images, the rated line is clearly below the 300 line. I would guess 295.

 

[MP3Mike]

How do you know?

You could do a little searching on the forum... You might find this thread: Calculate usable battery capacity based on rated miles values

With this information:

In general, what you need to calculate capacity are the exact static rated mile values for your type of configuration. And actually, they're pretty simple. Here they are:

• All RWD Cars (non-Performance and Performance): 295 Wh/Rated Mile
• All Pre-refresh Model S Dual Motor, non-Performance: 290 Wh/Rated Mile
• Refresh Model S Dual Motor, non-Performance under 100 kWh: 285 Wh/Rated Mile
• Model X Dual Motor, non-Performance under 100 kWh: 320 Wh/Rated Mile
• Model S Dual Motor, Performance under 100 kWh: 310 Wh/Rated Mile
• Model X Dual Motor, Performance under 100 kWh: 333 Wh/Rated Mile
• Model X Dual Motor, Performance 100 kWh: 342 Wh/Rated Mile

Of course that is all for US cars...

 

[taylorogan]

In your first and third images, the rated line is clearly below the 300 line. I would guess 295.

Okay, so this would be the updated one:

 

[brianman]

11 Electric Cars With Most Range

. Rating systems for range in Europe, China, and elsewhere are far more lenient (read:unrealistic) than the US EPA’s rating system.

 

[Olle]

Any car manufacturer's listed consumption will vary widely depending on what country site you visit, different countries have different requirements for how to measure fuel consumption. USA has EPA for example. (btw it's not 300 Wh/mile for all Teslas)

No Engineering or math needed, but Challenge solved

 

[ucmndd]

Advertised range is based on local regulation and test cycles. In the USA, advertised range uses the EPA test cycle. In Europe the NEDC cycle is used. Not sure what China is, but you can be sure there's local regulation at play.

This isn't a mystery. It's been this way forever.

 

[JohnnyG]

Go look at your car right now. I am on my third Tesla, and in all of them it was 300Wh/mi.

Not that this is necessary, but what the hell, I'm having fun

The thin bottom line is 300Wh/mi.
The thicker line above that is "Rated".
The dashed line is obviously 320Wh/mi.

I'll let you get out the measuring stick and guesstimate the exact value of "Rated".
I've caught it right on the line at ~316Wh/mi, and just below the line at ~312Wh/mi.

 

[MP3Mike]

In Europe the NEDC cycle is used.

They are transitioning to WLTP instead of NEDC, which if I recall correctly has to be used starting 9/1/2018.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla handles that. Will they update the range estimate calculation on all EU Teslas to WLTP, or will they really do it just for ones registered on/after 9/1/18?

 

[JohnnyG]

They are transitioning to WLTP instead of NEDC, which if I recall correctly has to be used starting 9/1/2018.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla handles that. Will they update the range estimate calculation on all EU Teslas to WLTP, or will they really do it just for ones registered on/after 9/1/18?

Ohh! That is interesting... I would guess (literally a guess) that they would have to stick with whichever numbers the car was sold with, to maintain legality. At a minimum, they couldn't do it for all Teslas across the board in Europe, because the EU would have to run the WLTP tests on all configurations to provide Tesla with their numbers. They wouldn't be able to run it on anything that's not current production, as they wouldn't have a new, untouched car, to test.

 

[brianman]

11 Electric Cars With Most Range

@appleguru - You're disagreeing with my ability to link or use quotes correctly?

 

[appleguru]

@appleguru - You're disagreeing with my ability to link or use quotes correctly?

Apparently

When I'm on mobile I tend to fat finger the disagree button, sorry! (Is actually hilarious/awesome that we have a disagree button on the forums...)