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Charger solution on private car parking space

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Installing home charger in HK - Successful cases

I am currently negotiation with my management office for installing a charger at my car park space.....their initial concerns are similar as what we seen in the forum, e.g. inadequate electricity supply for the building, unfair to other tenants if more request for installation..

I just want to know how many of you successfully convince your management office to let you install your charger? what's the key success factors in your negotiation? and possible the name of your building, so I can show my management office that this is indeed a trend in HK and many other buildings are already or going to install chargers for tenants.

thanks!
 
I am currently negotiation with my management office for installing a charger at my car park space.....their initial concerns are similar as what we seen in the forum, e.g. inadequate electricity supply for the building, unfair to other tenants if more request for installation..

I just want to know how many of you successfully convince your management office to let you install your charger? what's the key success factors in your negotiation? and possible the name of your building, so I can show my management office that this is indeed a trend in HK and many other buildings are already or going to install chargers for tenants.

thanks!

My building just had a Management Committee meeting last week. And this time I proposed EV Power's new solution to them. EV Power call it Residential Apartment EV Charging Scheme (RAS). Under this scheme, EV Power provides all hardware (charging equipment, cables, etc )& installation (they will install cable trunk for the whole parking of your building). All charging stations will be connected to an independent power source and a separated power meter applied by EV Power, so it won't affect the building's power and capacity won't be an issue. Under RAS, we don't have to buy the charging station or pay the installation fee, we just pay a one time setup fee and monthly fee. This model is kinda like how ISP do business in HK. This plan will minimize management's work load (e.g. billing each owners' electricity cost and handling each parking owner's application) it should be welcomed by them.

I think RAS is easier to get approval as it solved most of the problems/concerns worried by management companies & owners' committee. Although my building still haven't approved RAS after the meeting last week, but this time they said they want to see if there is another company providing something like RAS and they want to ask them to do a quotation (I really doubt there is another company offering similar solution). I didn't join the meeting as their agenda is quite long this time, but at least I feel I made some progress here.

If you want a copy of the RAS brochure, PM me your email address.
 
My building just had a Management Committee meeting last week. And this time I proposed EV Power's new solution to them. EV Power call it Residential Apartment EV Charging Scheme (RAS). Under this scheme, EV Power provides all hardware (charging equipment, cables, etc )& installation (they will install cable trunk for the whole parking of your building). All charging stations will be connected to an independent power source and a separated power meter applied by EV Power, so it won't affect the building's power and capacity won't be an issue. Under RAS, we don't have to buy the charging station or pay the installation fee, we just pay a one time setup fee and monthly fee. This model is kinda like how ISP do business in HK. This plan will minimize management's work load (e.g. billing each owners' electricity cost and handling each parking owner's application) it should be welcomed by them.

I think RAS is easier to get approval as it solved most of the problems/concerns worried by management companies & owners' committee. Although my building still haven't approved RAS after the meeting last week, but this time they said they want to see if there is another company providing something like RAS and they want to ask them to do a quotation (I really doubt there is another company offering similar solution). I didn't join the meeting as their agenda is quite long this time, but at least I feel I made some progress here.

If you want a copy of the RAS brochure, PM me your email address.

Thank you for sending me the PDF file.

As per your permission, sonywong, I have uploaded it so anyone can get it here (2.1MB PDF):

http://tinyurl.com/RAS-EVPOWER

I have already forwarded it to my local parking, as they are still "thinking about it" - hoping this simple solution will make the choice easier for them. Simple for the car-park owner/operator, "difficult" for EV power.

The problems are listed on the first many pages. The solution starts from around page 12 and forward. Sounds like a good solution although they should have let the PR department write it together with the engineers together, not only have engineering write it!

For one user, I understand you put down 5 000 HKD, after that 1 800 HKD pr month for unlimited charging (for the "luxury package"). I wonder if that gives access to all EV Power RAS chargers, or only specifically at that estate.

Some day, we will look back at charging solutions like this one like we can now look back at those WiFi hotspot solutions mainly at hotels - where you used to pay 200 HKD or more pr DAY for internet. Installed for free in the hotel, yet with a set contractual period where the installer collects money from the customers.

I don't care if it is 5 or 7 kW, as long as it is in my "home" parking. To me, fast charging is only required if I am dependent on only charging when "out".
 
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Summary: The RAS program from EV Power appears to be a good alternative. The EV Power team conducted a presentation on this topic for the owners' committee at my apartment complex that was favorably received.

The owners' committee at my apartment complex was generally favorable to installing private chargers wired to our apartment meters - the original proposal from EV Power. However, there was some apprehension regarding opening up the cable trays for the wiring to all owners to install charging stations. The conversation then spiraled downwards has the owners' committee were speculating on how they would handle an owner's request that wanted to install a regular 13A socket.

EV Power, who made the presentation at the owners' committee meeting, then also suggested the RAS program mentioned above. So although not yet approved by the owners' committee, this was considered to be their path of least resistance and getting charging capabilities to tenants as soon as possible. The owners' committee was also considering installing interim charging stations until the EV Power program is completed. The next vote with this new proposal is in Mid July.

I would recommend that if your apartment complex wouldn't consider charging stations before that this new alternative might work.
 
Hi all,

I'm getting my wall connector installed next Wednesday. But a question came up.

At first, I went to a few different electricians who all quoted for a 40A single phase installation. (Prices varied hugely, BTW, from $8,500 to $30,000, and all of them had visited so they all had exactly the same facts.) And I chose the lowest bid not only because he was the cheapest but also because he was on the Tesla Recommended Contractor list. And then as I was confirming some details with him, I reminded him that according to the installation guide, if I want 40A to go to the car, I need a 50A circuit breaker. He has now come back to say if I want 50A wiring, he needs to charge $11,000 rather than the $8,500 he originally quoted. Is there something fishy going on? Is he raising the price because he now thinks the job is assured? Do I need 50A wiring if I want 40A going to the car? Is there such a thing as 50A wiring vs. 40A wiring?

Sorry for the stupid questions. I really have zero knowledge about electricity matters!

Thank you in advance!
 
Do I need 50A wiring if I want 40A going to the car? Is there such a thing as 50A wiring vs. 40A wiring?

Sorry for the stupid questions. I really have zero knowledge about electricity matters!

Thank you in advance!

If you want 40A charging, you need 50A wiring, isolator and breaker.
If you can make do with 32A charging, then 40A wiring, isolator and breaker is ok.

The reason is that the 40A is _continuous_ load, not peak, so the regs ask for a safety margin upstream.

The current wall connectors being delivered by Tesla will not exceed 32A anyway, but will supposedly be upgraded to 40A maximum later this summer.
 
If you want 40A charging, you need 50A wiring, isolator and breaker.
If you can make do with 32A charging, then 40A wiring, isolator and breaker is ok.

The reason is that the 40A is _continuous_ load, not peak, so the regs ask for a safety margin upstream.

The current wall connectors being delivered by Tesla will not exceed 32A anyway, but will supposedly be upgraded to 40A maximum later this summer.

Thanks Mark! I asked my Delivery Specialist who (unsurprisingly) didn't know the answer and asked the charging team. Their response was essentially consistent with yours: 40A wiring is probably 6mm wire and 50A wiring would need to be 10mm, hence the higher cost. But when I checked the contractor's quotation, he had already quoted me 10mm wiring. Is there anything else that needs to be different 40A vs 50A?
 
Thanks Mark! I asked my Delivery Specialist who (unsurprisingly) didn't know the answer and asked the charging team. Their response was essentially consistent with yours: 40A wiring is probably 6mm wire and 50A wiring would need to be 10mm, hence the higher cost. But when I checked the contractor's quotation, he had already quoted me 10mm wiring. Is there anything else that needs to be different 40A vs 50A?

The breaker and isolator, but costs of those are typically much less than the wiring (depending on length ). Other issue is sufficient capacity at the MCB, but if he has to change things there he would tell you and quote it.
 
The reason is that the 40A is _continuous_ load, not peak, so the regs ask for a safety margin upstream.

Is this definitively confirmed for Hong Kong regulations?

There's a lot of confusion due to some jurisdictions (eg. USA) rating for intermittent load and needing derating, while others (eg. UK) rate for continuous load - with Tesla documentation not always matching the country where it is being read.

If you are familiar with the regs (or have checked) perhaps you can give us that confirmation.

My knowledge is limited to UK practice, where breakers are marked for continuous capability and 6mm^2 cable is rated for 46A continuous when used in free air ("clipped direct" to a wall etc); for use in enclosed trunking, need to go up a size as the rating drops to 36A. Similarly, 10mm^2 is rated 63A clipped direct, 46A enclosed in trunking. And similar adjustments for cables buried in insulation, armoured cables etc. These figures may or may not be correct for Hong Kong regulations, but almost everywhere you can't just look at cable gauge, you need to consider type of cable and installation method too.
 
Is this definitively confirmed for Hong Kong regulations?

There's a lot of confusion due to some jurisdictions (eg. USA) rating for intermittent load and needing derating, while others (eg. UK) rate for continuous load - with Tesla documentation not always matching the country where it is being read.

I have been told by both my electrician and Tesla that the requirement is there. My electrician was only willing to install with such an arrangement. But, I haven't seen any regulations which describe the requirement.

The following document from the HK EMSD outlines the requirements for EV charging stations in Hong Kong:

http://www.emsd.gov.hk/emsd/e_download/pps/pub/Charging_Facilities_Electric_Vehicles.pdf

Notice the table on page #11 showing a IEC 60309 32A charge current on a 32A RCBO with a 32A isolator switch.

So, the best I can say is that it seems to be recommended and common practice here. Whether it is required by regulations, I don't know.
 
Thanks again.
Just to finish off the conversation: Tesla was actually quite helpful, offering their charging team to liaise directly with the contractor. Frankly, I think there was something fishy going on at the contractor, claiming he somehow misunderstood my management office. Anyway, he will now proceed to install 10 mm wiring and the 50A breaker to allow 40A to the car. (Tesla never mentioned to me that the wall connector they sent me is only capable of supplying 32A, so either the modification has already been made in mine or they're "hiding" it from me, whether consciously or not.)
The installation will start tomorrow and is expected to be completed on Thursday (dunno why it takes that long, but my main switch is on 2/F whereas my parking spot is on G/F so the wiring is relatively long.)
 
Ready for liftoff!

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My wife says it looks like an electronic soap dispenser!
 
Yes, but if someone on the forum plans to be in the Tai Hang area (opposite Queen's College) and would like a charge, send me a PM and I'll try to arrange it.

If anyone drove up to that charger (considering they knew it was there, and had access to get their car inside), could they just plug in and go? Or is it somehow locked to your car?
 
DITB, the garage gate is always closed. I have to permit access for any car to get in. But from the road outside, you can peek in and see the wall connector.

What I mean is - is there anything in the charger to prevent other charging, or otherwise control it? Like if I left my iPhone charger plugged in somewhere, anyone who came across it could plug in and charge. Same for your charger?