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Charging Basics: School Me.

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by tfraley, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. tfraley

    tfraley Member

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    Good day guys.

    I am a proud owner of a Model 3 standard Plus.
    I also had a Tesla charger installed in my garage.

    I understand the standard plus does not charge as fast as a long range.

    Had to look up and figure out why.
    it's because of the AC to DC converter in the car itself it has a max amp rating to it.

    With that being said How do Tesla Superchargers get the speeds it does?

    Does it charge directly DC and bypass the converter? (just me guessing)


    Thanks.

    It's a Brave new Electric world out there.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  2. Sophias_dad

    Sophias_dad Member

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    Yes, that is how it works.
     
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  3. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    you're pretty bright - the superchargers bypass the onboard charger and it's a dc to dc charger

    I'm not sure if it's been determined yet, but in the past Tesla had software limited the onboard charger for lower level cars - so it's possible that your car could charge at 48amps like a LR one day with a firmware change
     
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  4. GigaGrunt

    GigaGrunt Member

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    Hardware different between SR and LR, penthouse specifically. Changing the penthouse requires opening/dropping the pack. Not including firmware changes to make it think differently.
     
    • Informative x 2
  5. JulienW

    JulienW Active Member

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    Just to add and a little pet peeve the Tesla chargER is IN the car and not on your wall. This is the same for all cars, phones and lit-ion devices. People often mistakenly call the power cable a charger but it's not. So you installed a Tesla Wall Connector (NOT a chargER) which is also a ChargING Station.

    When you plug into a DC fast chargER it is bypassing the cars internal chargER. This is why Tesla calls it a Super ChargER and CCS is also a chargER. All level 1 and 2 are ChargING Stations (AC).
     
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  6. SMAlset

    SMAlset Well-Known Member

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  7. edigest

    edigest Member

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    Shouldn't that be "pet peEVe?" :)

     
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  8. Bloomj

    Bloomj Member

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    I’m not hijack the thread but I have a related question - again I’m a newbie so haven’t sorted everything out just yet. I also searched this but not a lot of discussion on alternative wall connectors.

    I’m trying to decide which “wall connector” to install in my garage. For the beginning I’ll be using the portable cable that comes with the car connecting to a 6-50 outlet I have in my shop for welding. Long term I’ll likely install something in my house garage to make things more convenient. Question is do I buy the Tesla unit for $500 or something more generic that just comes with a standard J1772? Since the car comes with the J1772 adapter why not get a more generic charging connector ? What’s the advantage to the T branded unit? I have no issue going either route.
     
  9. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    #9 srs5694, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    The main advantage of the Tesla Wall Connector is that it comes with the Tesla plug, so you don't need an adapter. This is mainly a convenience issue, since having the adapter attached makes using a J1772 plug a little more awkward -- a J1772 unit won't open the charge door when you push the button (but tapping the cover opens it, so this is a very minor point), and it's a little bit easier to unplug Tesla's plug than a J1772 with an adapter attached. These are very minor convenience issues, though. A slightly bigger one, IMHO, is that using a J1772 EVSE means you'll need to buy a dedicated J1772 adapter to keep permanently with the EVSE, thus raising the cost; frequently unplug the adapter from the EVSE and store it in the car, which is a bigger hassle and increases wear and tear on the plug and adapter; or not routinely carry the J1772 adapter with you, which will make it impossible to charge at most public Level 2 EVSEs. One more point is that any electrical adapter or connector is a potential point of failure. There are reports here about J1772 adapters that have melted because of problems, which might be related to insecure connections. If the EVSE is mounted outdoors, or if you run the cable outside to charge, there's greater chance of water seeping into the connection and causing problems. Finally, Tesla's Wall Connector is reasonably priced -- $500 is about as low as you'll find third-party EVSEs capable of 32A or better charging (and Tesla's will charge an LR Model 3 at 48A), so you're getting the advantages of the Tesla adapter and not paying any more money for it, unless you find an unusually good deal on a J1772 EVSE.

    The main advantage of a J1772 EVSE is that it can be used with other vehicles. If you already have or plan to add a non-Tesla EVSE or if you expect to have friends visit regularly who want to charge, then a J1772 EVSE may be worth considering. (There are adapters to let cars with J1772 ports charge from a Tesla Wall Connector, but they cost ~$250, vs. $95 for Tesla's J1772 adapter to go the other way.) Another advantage of some third-party EVSEs is that some of them have features not found in Tesla's. A few manufacturers, like eMotorWerks and ChargePoint, make Internet-enabled EVSEs, which may be desirable if you're a data junkie. (OTOH, you can get much of the same data from the Tesla via its API or a service like TeslaFi.) There are a few minor oddball features on some EVSEs, too, like delayed charging (but this doesn't always work well with Teslas, and is a feature provided by Tesla vehicles, too) and readouts that display basic data like voltage and amperage (but again, you can get that from your car). It's also conceivable you'd prefer the styling of a specific third-party EVSE.

    Overall, if you don't anticipate the need to charge non-Tesla vehicles, chances are Tesla's Wall Connector would be the better choice unless you get a really good deal on a third-party EVSE -- say, $300 or less on a unit that can deliver at least 32A, and preferably more. The biggest reason to buy a J1772 EVSE would be if you need to charge non-Tesla EVs, either now or in the near future.

    Of course, if you're looking for the least expensive way to do it, that's to use the portable EVSE that comes with the Model 3. They used to ship with NEMA 14-50 plugs/adapters. Those are no longer included, but can be bought for $35. Thus, installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet, hanging the included EVSE on the wall, and plugging it in gives you 32A, 240V charging for $35 plus whatever the outlet costs, saving you perhaps $400 (or more, if you've already got the NEMA 14-50 outlet) over the cost of the Wall Connector. Personally, I'd be fine with this if I had a reasonably secure garage; but if I wanted to mount an EVSE outside, I'd prefer something that's hard-wired and bolted to the wall, rather than plugged in. Having a separate, permanently installed EVSE would also make it slightly better for road trips, since then there'd be no need to stow the EVSE in the car before the trip and then re-hang it on the wall afterward. That's likely a very minor factor unless you go on a lot of road trips, though.

    FWIW, I use a Clipper Creek HCS-40 with a JuiceNet board installed. I use this EVSE because I bought it for a Chevy Volt that I drove prior to buying my Tesla Model 3. It was easier and cheaper to buy an extra $95 J1772 adapter than to replace the EVSE, so my case falls into the "need to charge non-Tesla EVs" category, albeit temporally displaced. I've charged with the portable EVSE that comes with the Tesla a few times just to figure out the details of using its plug, and so I can say from personal experience that its advantages over a J1772 with adapter are quite minor. If I needed to replace my Clipper Creek for some reason, I'd probably replace it with Tesla's Wall Connector.
     
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  10. Bloomj

    Bloomj Member

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    Wow, thanks for such a comprehensive response to my question. Your points are well taken and make perfect sense to me. I will be using the portable unit to start connected to my 50a circuit via the 6–50 adapter I purchased from Tesla. Once I get more comfortable with the car and decide if I’m in it for the longer term I’ll install the Tesla wall unit based on the info you provided. If I do that I’ll likely add a 14-50 pigtale to it myself and install the matching receptacle just because that seems to make more sense to me than directly hard wiring it.

    Thanks again!
     
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  11. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    As I understand it, a NEMA 6-50 is as good as a NEMA 14-50 for EV charging, so you'll probably be fine even for the long run, provided you don't mind stowing the EVSE whenever you want it in the car (for road trips, say). You could even buy a second one, rather than a Wall Connector, to save $200, if you want to keep one permanently in the car.

    Tesla did once offer a Wall Connector with a NEMA 14-50 plug, but they seem to have discontinued it. It's conceivable it'll make a comeback. Many third-party EVSEs come with NEMA 14-50 (and other varieties of 240v) plug, FWIW, so I suppose that'd be another minor advantage to a J1772 EVSE if you want that feature. I've heard of people replacing the hard-wiring pigtails with plugs, so it's certainly do-able, with the caveat that you're dealing with a high-voltage appliance, so you should know what you're doing before you make the attempt.
     
  12. Bloomj

    Bloomj Member

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    I understand that. My welder used a 6-50 so I have that now. I’ll put in a 14-50 if I add a wall charger. Good point about buying a second portable unit which is less expensive. Any disadvantage to it over the wall other than ascetics / convenience of use?
     
  13. TT97

    TT97 Active Member

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    That was an amazing summary!

    I do want to add one other advantage of the Tesla HPWC. The Tesla unit allows you to daisy chain the units for up to four separate HPWC.

    If you end up buying a second EV, you can have 2 units and have both cars plugged in at the same time. The units "speak" to each other to manage the load between the two units. This would also work with a non-Tesla by using a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter (TeslaTap also sells converted Tesla HPWC with J1772 plug). Perhaps in the future, Tesla may also sell a J1772 unit as they do have them at some of their public stations (well, at least one in Toronto).

    There are some J1772 units that can do power sharing but they tend to be more expensive.

    Also, if you do get the HPWC, buy the 24' version. Even if the 8½' works, the 24' will give you more future proofing.
     
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  14. Bloomj

    Bloomj Member

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    I figured I’d get the 24’ for that reason.
     
  15. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense. A Wall CONNECTOR (not charger, the charger is in the car) is hardwired into the circuit. If you have a 6-50 outlet already, just buy the 6-50 adapter for the UMC and you’re done. You’ll charge at 32A. No reason to think about a 14-50 outlet in your circumstances.
     
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  16. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    :eek: Why in the world?!?! It doesn't make more sense. The wall connector manual says it is supposed to be a hardwired device. I know some people do that, but it is less reliable and safe by putting more loose junction points in versus hardwired.
     
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  17. Target

    Target Supporting Member

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    I would suggest installing the HPWC as a hard wired device. There are people that add a cord and plug it in, but you are adding a couple of extra points of failure (and fire) that you can avoid by hard wiring it.

    My home setup is 4 J1772's at 80A (or less) with proper disconnects and the works. They are home built units based on OpenEVSE hardware, uprated contactors and J1772 cables. It cost me more per station than just buying the Tesla units, but I don't like Vendor lockin. I can also manage these via a web browser or API call. Also I have MORE power available than I could properly distribute via the HPWC management protocol. I am an extreme example of why you go a different direction, but most people don't have 300 amp service to their garage.
     
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  18. pmgia

    pmgia New Member

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    I’m a big fan of K I S S, that made the only decision for me to be the Tesla charger. I figure if I’m using Tesla products and parts if I ever have an issue with battery/charging they will be more willing to take care of me. If AT&T made their own phone or if Apple had their own service I’d sign up, I hate when I have an issue AT&T blames Apple and Apple blames AT&T. If suggestion are you may save $200-300 buying aftermarket, that was easy money for me to spend to get a Tesla charger, money buys time and keeping it all Tesla saves me time in the short run on (lack of need doing research) and in the long run - if Issues, I simply call one number. No brainer, buy Tesla!
     
  19. dk10438

    dk10438 Member

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    not sure if this was mentioned but the HPWC can handle a 100A circuit with 80A output. Many of the MS and MX's have either 72A or 80A chargers. I charge my car at 72A and get 50 mi/hr (less of an issue for M3 since they come with 48A chargers and since it's more efficient, probably already getting 40+ mi/h on a 48A). As previously mentioned, you can daisy chain multiple HPWC's to charge multiple cars and it will automatically allocate output...
     
  20. immihu

    immihu New Member

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    We have two EVs, a M3 LR and a much cheaper Nissan Leaf for local/commute, and the J1772 with the Tesla-provided adapter serves well for our purpose.
     

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