Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[Jeff N]

If I remember correctly, US Volts1 came with Goodyear 93's and had some sidewall blowouts - at least I read some reports on gm-volt forum - and were upgraded to 94s.
In Europe, Ampera initially came with Michelin Energy Saver tires rated as 94 and had no sidewall blowouts.

You are talking about the first generation Volt from 2011-2015 which was a heavier car than the Bolt EV (about 200 pounds heavier). It originally came with Goodyear Fuel Max 93H tires. I'm not certain what tires came with later model years like the 2015.

The second generation Volt 2016-2017 and the new 2017 Bolt EV both come with Michelin Energy Saver A/S 91H.

 

[McRat]

I can go look, but IIRC, our G1 is 93V rated, and the 2017 is 91H.

It seems one year sold with W rated tires (168mph) talk about optimism.

 

[bro1999]

Bolt configurator finally up at Chevy.com: Chevy Bolt EV for Sale: 2017 Bolt EV Pricing | Chevrolet

Checking every box possible (even the extra stuff like sill plates, spare charging cord, etc...), I get a MSRP of $44,950.
Taking away the extra, unnecessary crap, I get $43,965.

Either way, under $45k for a fully loaded Bolt. And that's before any incentives or discounts.

 

[McRat]

DOH! I blew by 2 days. I was thinking Dec1. Last night it was still a Future Car, now it's an active model.

Not seeing any on lots though.

 

[McRat]

Interesting tidbit - Corrected for inflation, the base model matches the initial pricing on the 2011 Volt.

 

[bro1999]

NY Daily News Bolt EV First Drive review: First Drive: 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV

Most important nugget? Basic confirmation the Bolt's peak DC fast charge rate is 80 kW.

About 1,200 of Chevy’s 3,000 dealers will sell and service the Bolt, and each must have 480-volt, 80kW fast-charging capability in the service bay.

Why require an 80 kW fast charger instead of 50 kW? Because the Bolt's max fast charge rate is actually 80 kW!

 

[MP3Mike]

Why require an 80 kW fast charger instead of 50 kW? Because the Bolt's max fast charge rate is actually 80 kW!

Future proofing for future models?

 

[McRat]

80kW peak was probably the only way to guarantee the over 90 miles in 30 minute claim. 50kW after losses, and declining amps would probably not have hit 90 miles on a hot or cold day.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

NY Daily News Bolt EV First Drive review: First Drive: 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV

Most important nugget? Basic confirmation the Bolt's peak DC fast charge rate is 80 kW.

About 1,200 of Chevy’s 3,000 dealers will sell and service the Bolt, and each must have 480-volt, 80kW fast-charging capability in the service bay.

Why require an 80 kW fast charger instead of 50 kW? Because the Bolt's max fast charge rate is actually 80 kW!

Careful: they might have picked up the 80kW from the same Tavel quote we did, rather than getting a specific quote from a source. But, I really hope it's true and then we get to ask for the next piece of information: the charging curve.

 

[bro1999]

Future proofing for future models?

80 kW isn't much future proofing...especially now that 350 kW CCS stations have been announced (in Europe). Why push extra costs on dealers (which quite a few are probably already begrudgingly paying the costs to become Bolt-certified) if it's not required for a current vehicle like the Bolt?

More likely answer is the Bolt supports up to 80 kW fast charging. Note that GM has not actually specified what the max DC fast charge rate is for the Bolt...they've just spit out "90 miles in 30 min" and "160 in 1 hour".

 

[bro1999]

Careful: they might have picked up the 80kW from the same Tavel quote we did, rather than getting a specific quote from a source. But, I really hope it's true and then we get to ask for the next piece of information: the charging curve.

I dunno, the writer of the article seems to have decades of experience writing in the automotive field...not some n00b. It'd be a pretty gross error to confuse 50 with 80. Everything else in the review is spot on.

 

[McRat]

I don't think anybody is going to know until Chargepoint puts in the 125kW stations they said they would.

 

[Zoomit]

80kW peak was probably the only way to guarantee the over 90 miles in 30 minute claim. 50kW after losses, and declining amps would probably not have hit 90 miles on a hot or cold day.

90 miles out of 238 miles is 38%
38% of 60 kWh is 22.7 kWh
22.7 kWh over 30 minutes needs an average of ~45kW in the battery, which seems reasonable for a 125A charger (125Ax350V=43.8kW, 125Ax400V=50kW).

A 100A charger would not be able to do it.

 

[e-FTW]

Configurator is up.

Wait, no 240v charging cable from GM? They really want to sell this without "scaring" people. Or do they want to sell it all...
"No electrical work, anyone can buy this!"
Although, you may not be able to drive it everyday, as it will still be charging from that long drive on Sunday. Charging at 4mph (if it is a NEMA 5-20, 3 mph if it is not) will not get you a lot of overnight range at home (best case is 56 miles over 14 hours).
And DC fast charging is not included by default, and limited to 50kw?

They are just confirming what I've been saying all along: this is an EV for the range anxious commuter. Oh wait, low charge speed makes this false! This is an EV for the range-anxious, occasional commuter.

Am just disappointed in their effort. I get why they are not all out as they could. This does not detract from the fact it might be a great car for you! If you are here, you are probably knowledgeable enough to go and get a proper 240v cable, and get a NEMA 14-50 installed.

 

[McRat]

Configurator is up.

Wait, no 240v charging cable from GM? They really want to sell this without "scaring" people. Or do they want to sell it all...
"No electrical work, anyone can buy this!"
Although, you may not be able to drive it everyday, as it will still be charging from that long drive on Sunday. Charging at 4mph (if it is a NEMA 5-20, 3 mph if it is not) will not get you a lot of overnight range at home (best case is 56 miles over 14 hours).
And DC fast charging is not included by default, and limited to 50kw?

They are just confirming what I've been saying all along: this is an EV for the range anxious commuter. Oh wait, low charge speed makes this false! This is an EV for the range-anxious, occasional commuter.

Am just disappointed in their effort. I get why they are not all out as they could. This does not detract from the fact it might be a great car for you! If you are here, you are probably knowledgeable enough to go and get a proper 240v cable, and get a NEMA 14-50 installed.

My kids 2016 Volt charges at 12a x 244vac 1ph using the included EVSE which is really long.

It is unlikely that the Bolt won't do the same.

 

[bro1999]

Video of a Bolt ride with one of the engineers:

At about 3:20, the person asks:
"Can the Bolt charge faster than 50 kw?"
Engineer: "Ummmmm...............*long pause*.........we're saying 50 kW for now."
The engineer then quickly changes the subject.

Combined with the multiple mentions of 80 kW, it seems almost certain the Bolt is not capped at 50 kW for fast charging.
The current CCS-charging infrastructure in the US only supports 50 kW fast charging.....so why should GM bother advertising a higher rate that no one can actually achieve now? I'm sure when Chargepoint's 125 kW CCS stations start appearing, GM will release something that says, "Oh, btw, the Bolt can actually charge up to 80 kW."

 

[RiverBrick]

Careful: they might have picked up the 80kW from the same Tavel quote we did, rather than getting a specific quote from a source. But, I really hope it's true and then we get to ask for the next piece of information: the charging curve.

CCS stations are also being required for Canadian Bolt dealers and one of them just installed a 50 kW max unit, so they're going to be upset if they need to install an 80 kW station as well. Is anyone even selling 80 kW or higher CCS in North America currently? When is the deadline for dealer installations to be completed?

 

[bro1999]

CCS stations are also being required for Canadian Bolt dealers and one of them just installed a 50 kW max unit, so they're going to be upset if they need to install an 80 kW station as well. Is anyone even selling 80 kW or higher CCS in North America currently? When is the deadline for dealer installations to be completed?

Perhaps requirements in Canada are more lax? Who knows.

I don't think we'll know for sure if the Bolt can charge higher than 50 kW until it is plugged into a >50 kW CCS station.

 

[McRat]

It should be understood how people drive before we score a FAIL in the DCFC column for the Bolt.

Nobody knows how people will drive an affordable 200+ mile BEV yet, because they do not exist.

As far as DCFC rates go, is everybody assuming it's an open loop charging rate with a lookup table?

With GM engine and transmission computers, much of the logic run is with dynamic variables in closed loop mode feeding off sensors. The only time it uses fixed tables is when the conditions do not support closed loop.

For newer car enthusiasts, an open loop system is where the actions of the car are always the same in the same conditions. It doesn't "learn". Closed loop is where the system looks at the sensors, and starts from the last stored variable as some constants, and constantly adjusts the system to optimize the performance.

GM has been a leader in closed loop software for quite awhile. They certainly have the experience and talent to program controls that way.

How does this apply to DCFC?

Open loop would look at the temp sensors and voltage sensors, look up the correct max kW from a fixed table, then apply it. It would not be optimum due to battery variations including degradation. Variations in true cooling performance or balance, would force the tables to aim low.

Closed loop would look at the sensors, and calculate the kW rate based on what it has learned in the past, and how the battery acts today. This would not require a fixed peak kW lower than the engineering limit on the pack itself. If the battery was behaving correctly, it would adjust the kW value to what the battery can handle, which might be as high as 125kW based on what they learned with the 19kWh LG array in the Generation II Chevrolet Spark EV. The Spark EV might have been little more than a real world battery test for the upcoming Bolt.

I'm not saying GM will go with Closed Loop charging, or Open Loop, or even that they won't freeze top at 50 kW. I'm just using GM's history with automotive design to predict which system they will use.

 

[TexasEV]

It should be understood how people drive before we score a FAIL in the DCFC column for the Bolt.

Nobody knows how people will drive an affordable 200+ mile BEV yet, because they do not exist.

Why would people drive an affordable 200 mile BEV any differently than a more expensive 200 mile BEV (such as the original S60)? I drive mine just as I would if I had bought an 85, I just take longer at the superchargers.