The purveyors of DC charging seem to use the term "DC charging" and "fast charging" interchangeably. There should be a threshold at which DC charging is called fast charging, perhaps 50kW. Anything less than that could be called regular DC charging, or if <25kW maybe even "slow DC charging".
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
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The purveyors of DC charging seem to use the term "DC charging" and "fast charging" interchangeably. There should be a threshold at which DC charging is called fast charging, perhaps 50kW. Anything less than that could be called regular DC charging, or if <25kW maybe even "slow DC charging".
mknox
Well-Known Member
My "classic" S85 with A-pack is limited to 90 kW max, and I rarely see even that.
Indeed. My round trip commute is ~70 miles. I then often have errands/appointments in an evening. 100 miles in a day is not uncommon, and with cold weather, that means ~130 miles of range where I live.
Plenty of value in a 200 mile range EV even if not road tripping. Not doable in a Leaf, RAV4EV, Spark, etc...
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Well, I'm not quite sure that "have started building a DC FAST charging network..." is quite appropriate.. .they've started in on what is really an L2 network.
And as others have pointed out, even the 50KW units aren't exactly fast. I do notice they used "quick charge" in that article...
No.
A 200 mile EV has a longer range than an 80-100 mile EV, that is all.
For some, such as yourself, that is better.
For others, an 80 mile EV is better.
It is a very subjective qualifier.
For me, if Tesla made a 100 mile EV, I'd be all over that.
We would have one road trip capable car and one, more efficient, short range car.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Agree, and same here. My commute is ~90 miles and even in my Model S I can use up 50% of my battery capacity in a day if it's winter. More with side trips and such.
The Model S was way more than I really wanted to spend. I liked the Volt but it couldn't do even my daily stuff electrically. Having really liked my Cadillac CTS, I was hoping the ELR was going to offer more battery range, but alas it just came out as an overpriced Volt (but still a very nice car IMHO). I am curious to see what the electric range of the Cadillac CT6 is when they release that powertrain. The Leaf, Focus EV and such just couldn't cut it for me.
The Bolt (or other 200 mile EV) would work quite nicely for me.
I suppose some people would be happy with a 10 mile EV but I think they would end up regretting having such a limited range.
If you shop around, you can still find S40s for sale. It would have more than the 100 miles you need but would be way cheaper than the 60s, 70s, 85s and 90s that are out there.
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A friend and I were looking at the ELR and even with $25,000 in discounts (bringing it down to mid $50s), we both decided to just hold off. The electric range would be ok for daily driving but the lack of AWD killed it for me.
The Bolt would be ok for some city driving but wouldn't work for road trips or winter driving for me. I'd be better off with the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV as it has AWD and would still allow long distance road trips.
Right now, I'm still waiting on the X but could switch to an S if I don't like what I see in person. Another possibility is to get the Outlander PHEV (which might make it to Colorado before my reserved X)...and get a Model 3 as well in a couple of years. Those two vehicles would probably cost (combined) about as much as the X. I'm trying to get away from ICE though...
The context of MorrisonHiker's post, however, was in reply to Discoducky who stated:
Discoducky said:
He was pointing out that even with no road-trip/fast-charging involved, there is indeed value for a ~200 mile EV as a daily driver. More range is "better" than less range in that it services many more scenarios, mine (and mkox's) included.
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Jaff
Active Member
I think you are being a little harsh on Sun Country here S'toon...I realize that you want (and deserve imo) Level III charging, but remember, it could be much worse...if you didn't have the higher amperage Sun Country stations, you could be stuck with Blink's or Chargepoint's dismal 24 or 30 amp Level II stations.
From what I've read here and elsewhere, there are multiple DC charging standards that range from just faster than a wall outlet, to very fast, but the only network that is reliable both in terms of charging speed and maintenance is the supercharger network. It looks ot me that ChaDamo and CCS rely on the market to install and maintain their chargers. Most businesses that put in these chargers aren't going to pay the extra to get high power from the utility company, so they provide a what power their current utility hookup can provide, which may be higher than what you can get at home in some cases, it isn't all that close to SC power.
Let's face it, EVs are still not very common. Unless a business happens to put in one of these chargers in a very high traffic location, they are probably going to be disappointed with the revenue they get from their charger and they will won't get it fixed when it breaks down. Car makers who want to claim the network is there will be happy to claim it in their statistics. It is an installed charger, but in the real world it's useless.
Tesla spends the money up front to get their superchargers to deliver real fast charging, and they spend the money on maintenance to keep them operational. So supercharging is the only high speed charging network that is consistently reliable. I think other car makers are going to learn their folly when they start getting complaints from their long range EV buyers who end up stranded because the CHaDamo or CCS charger they were relying on for their next stop on a trip was dead or took forever to recharge.
Tesla's biggest strength is one they rarely get credit for: they think things through. I think that's why most if not all the Tesla wanna bes like Faraday Future will fail and why Fisker failed the first time. It isn't enough to just make an electric car. You have to support it too. Right now the market isn't going to support its on its own. It probably will someday when high speed charging stations are as common and as well maintained as gas stations, but it's still in the future.
And don't get me wrong, there are going to be some that benefit from a long range (>200 mile) EV, but would you build a global product based on those people? From the business case standpoint it is not a high priority.
I really hope that GM understands that the long distance network is going to be a good investment, but that it takes time and diligence to not only install and execute but also to innovate. This CCS is not going to cut it IMO at a significant deficit to current tech (Tesla Supercharger Network).
Maybe GM will sell varients of range that top out at 200 miles EPA or similar. Offering the platform of the Bolt with several battery options to compete with the Leaf and other EV's.
Offer a 50, 100, 150 and 200 mile EPA and see which one sells the most? Don't market long distance travel, but market how you'll never worry about range anxiety in and around your home charger. Maybe this is what they are after. I doubt it, but maybe.
If daily includes weekends.
Put in order, for us it goes errand < commute < regular weekend trips < occasional weekend trips < road trips
A 200 mile BEV with no OTR charging would be able to do errands, commutes and regular weekend trips (76 w/ 120V@<=16A, 105).
But gives us the expected Maine Superchargers and that's everything except road trips all possible, and some longer trips possible as well.
I think the importance of what I call a long-range BEV (as opposed to a long-distance BEV) is the impact of covering regular driving by handling the weekend stuff.
The Chevy bolt might be able to be a long distance bev if gm would put quick charging units on every gm dealership in the country the land is all ready paid for and plenty of electric already there. The dealers are always looking for extra income. I wonder what a us map would look like with all the gmc Cadillac Buick and Chevy dealers, with red dots for all of them placed on the map like tesla does?
Plenty of electricity? Likely installing a Supercharger like charging point would require a substantial upgrade to the dealership's transformer. Further, many won't want to pay the demand charges. Do you really want to hang out at a GM dealership for 30-40 minutes over and over again? Nissan dealerships have a habit of turning off their CHAdeMO units outside of dealership hours, some of it driven by the fact they don't want you hanging out on their lot after hours.
Really?? Tesla has built there entire business of selling long range >200 mile EV's. Do you really think Tesla would be anywhere if the Model S had a 80 mile range?
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Trev Page
Member
First spy shots of the final production Bolt!!!
as usual with GM, looks nothing like the concept.
First pictures of the production version 2017 Chevy Bolt | Electrek
as usual with GM, looks nothing like the concept.
First pictures of the production version 2017 Chevy Bolt | Electrek
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
In this rare case that's a good thing, the production version actually looks better than the concept for the most part.
It may start at 20K, but I'll bet you that the Bolt will be optioned better than the base Trax. Probably more equivalent to say the 25K version (the Trax tops out at 27K). If it comes in at 37.5K before rebates as expected, in California it will end up costing 27.5K. That would be a reasonable premium to get the electric drivetrain.
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