Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[DragonWatch]

Fake or True; that is the question. These experts say we have until 2020 to get climate change under control. And they’re the optimists.

I know my Tesla is making a difference, and I am seeing at least one everyday my wife lets me out into the world to drive our/her MX

How do I convince the honor graduate from Hawthorne (California) that clear cuts are real and that they impact life in general? Me, I graduated from there and was secretly voted least likely to succeed ~ in fact I was graduated just to prove the point. The only reason I knew clear cuts existed before high school was because my parents brought our family up to Washington to see Seattle's World Fair. Otherwise they would not have existed in my life.

My ducklings are all but gone:-( Between the big mouth bass, bull frogs and Eagles they did not have much of a chance. Seven out of seven, that is 100% demise.

Well, by this article/author you have until 2020 to build your lungs up in order to hold it for a million or two years until we hope things will iron out. Do you think we can evolve enough in the next couple of years to be able to hold our breath that long?

 

[Vern Padgett]

Let us do what we can. We cannot do for others, but we can do for ourselves. I'll find some Henry Thoreau quotes soon.

 

[Vern Padgett]

What is the use of a house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on? -- Henry Thoreau,

Thank God men cannot fly, and lay waste the sky as well as the earth.-- Henry Thoreau, 1861.

He who cuts down woods beyond a certain limit exterminates birds.-- Henry Thoreau,

“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.” Henry David Thoreau

I tried to find the sources of these quotes. I could not, within an hour's time.

I have read Walden 5 times. Once out loud, to my daughter when she was little. Wish I could say that I remembered these quotes from Henry's second book.

Easy to find quotes on the Internet, but difficult to substantiate them. And we talk more and more about fake news. Go figure.

 

[Skotty]

Regardless of other things, you have to think solar will eventually win out. With coal, you have to mine it from the ground, separate it from other things, haul it to a coal power plant, load it into a furnace to eventually turn a turbine to create electricity. Compare that to a solar panel. It just sits there and does the same thing all by itself with no interaction and no moving parts. Pair it with some batteries and you have the future, complete with no emissions, no manual labor, no supply chain to keep it running, no potential for fuel shortage, and little environmental impact.

 

[EinSV]

Regardless of other things, you have to think solar will eventually win out. With coal, you have to mine it from the ground, separate it from other things, haul it to a coal power plant, load it into a furnace to eventually turn a turbine to create electricity. Compare that to a solar panel. It just sits there and does the same thing all by itself with no interaction and no moving parts. Pair it with some batteries and you have the future, complete with no emissions, no manual labor, no supply chain to keep it running, no potential for fuel shortage, and little environmental impact.

It is really fortuitous that one of the most environmentally friendly energy options also is turning out to be one of the most efficient and economical. I am sure there is some new law of physics or economics to be discovered in there somewhere.

Not only is it fortuitous, but timely, given the Neolithic energy policies of the current U.S. administration: Trump Vows to Unleash the ‘Vast Energy Wealth’ of the U.S.

 

[Vern Padgett]

Regardless of other things, you have to think solar will eventually win out. With coal, you have to mine it from the ground, separate it from other things, haul it to a coal power plant, load it into a furnace to eventually turn a turbine to create electricity. Compare that to a solar panel. It just sits there and does the same thing all by itself with no interaction and no moving parts. Pair it with some batteries and you have the future, complete with no emissions, no manual labor, no supply chain to keep it running, no potential for fuel shortage, and little environmental impact.

Nice.
Received our bill today from Southern California Edison, our electricity provider. It was Minus 61 Dollars: $-61.34

 

[Vern Padgett]

It is really fortuitous that one of the most environmentally friendly energy options also is turning out to be one of the most efficient and economical. I am sure there is some new law of physics or economics to be discovered in there somewhere.

Not only is it fortuitous, but timely, given the Neolithic energy policies of the current U.S. administration: Trump Vows to Unleash the ‘Vast Energy Wealth’ of the U.S.

Thinking about your comment.
Is there a thread discussing why nearly half a million drivers reserved Model 3s, with gasoline cost at record low?

 

[S'toon]

It is really fortuitous that one of the most environmentally friendly energy options also is turning out to be one of the most efficient and economical. I am sure there is some new law of physics or economics to be discovered in there somewhere.

Not only is it fortuitous, but timely, given the Neolithic energy policies of the current U.S. administration: Trump Vows to Unleash the ‘Vast Energy Wealth’ of the U.S.

Trump’s road to ‘energy dominance’ excludes clean energy

 

[EinSV]

Thinking about your comment.
Is there a thread discussing why nearly half a million drivers reserved Model 3s, with gasoline cost at record low?

Vern, I am not sure I have seen a thread framed that way. There definitely seem to be lots of good reasons people are interested in the Model 3 independent of gas prices.

 

[Vern Padgett]

Why would half a million folks reserve a Model 3, if not to save money on fuel?

 

[SmartElectric]

Well, people didn't buy iPhone to save money, but it was easier to use and much more cool to own.

Cost savings is a relatively minor consideration when spending 40K on a car...a used gas car can be had for peanuts.

There are 400K people who put down reservations for many reasons.

 

[SageBrush]

Why would half a million folks reserve a Model 3, if not to save money on fuel?

I am going to swap out my Prius Prime for a Model 3. Do you really think this will save me money ?

 

[SageBrush]

Cost savings is a relatively minor consideration when spending 40K on a car

Yep, although I would phrase it somewhat differently: people will be hard pressed to make up in fuel savings what they spent extra to buy the Model 3 unless the comparison car is a Premium ICE model.

As one example, a Model 3 will cost me about $4,000 more than my Prius Prime after maximum federal tax credits are collected. Since I power *EV off my PV array at home, the Model 3 costs about 0.5 cents a mile and the Prime about 2.5 cents a mile in my combined PV/petrol use, for a net savings of 2 cents a mile.

Break-even then is ~ 4000/0.02 = 200,000 miles
It is actually quite a bit worse, because I did not include the opportunity cost of the extra $4,000 to buy the Model 3.

Of course, the Model 3 is probably going to be a fantastic car while the Prime is "only" a very good car. That is great value for $30 a month extra. And if you are like me and do not ignore the externalized costs of fossil fuel use, THEN the Model 3 is a bargain.

 

[DragonWatch]

Vern, I am not sure I have seen a thread framed that way. There definitely seem to be lots of good reasons people are interested in the Model 3 independent of gas prices.

There are a lot more good people that can rationally think and do not put themselves above all. I just wish I could meet them.

 

[DragonWatch]

Yep, although I would phrase it somewhat differently: people will be hard pressed to make up in fuel savings what they spent extra to buy the Model 3 unless the comparison car is a Premium ICE model.

As one example, a Model 3 will cost me about $4,000 more than my Prius Prime after maximum federal tax credits are collected. Since I power *EV off my PV array at home, the Model 3 costs about 0.5 cents a mile and the Prime about 2.5 cents a mile in my combined PV/petrol use, for a net savings of 2 cents a mile.

Break-even then is ~ 4000/0.02 = 200,000 miles
It is actually quite a bit worse, because I did not include the opportunity cost of the extra $4,000 to buy the Model 3.

Of course, the Model 3 is probably going to be a fantastic car while the Prime is "only" a very good car. That is great value for $30 a month extra. And if you are like me and do not ignore the externalized costs of fossil fuel use, THEN the Model 3 is a bargain.

Adding to your cost assumptions ~ with my converted M3 to MX, I no longer spend ten minutes filling up my Prius each week ~ that counts for something. At home I drive into the garage, plugin my car and go onto other more important things in my life

 

[SageBrush]

Adding to your cost assumptions ~ with my converted M3 to MX, I no longer spend ten minutes filling up my Prius each week ~ that counts for something. At home I drive into the garage, plugin my car and go onto other more important things in my life

That is a lot of driving. My ~ 11k miles a year works out to about a minute a week (a fill-up every 5 weeks or so.)

These time value discussions always lead to wonder how much time I spend on this forum. Then I change the topic.

 

[SageBrush]

At home I drive into the garage, plugin my car

OK, in the interest of useless trivia and wasted time, I googled the flow rate of a petrol fuel pump

10 Gallons a minute. Since I consume ~ 100 gallons a year that works out to a clean 10 minutes a year of my life wasted.
I would include all the time wasted waiting for credit card approval but I buy a gas gift card every 6 months or so. They come with a ~ 8-10% discount and are approved by the fueling station very quickly.

 

[DragonWatch]

OK, in the interest of useless trivia and wasted time, I googled the flow rate of a petrol fuel pump

10 Gallons a minute. Since I consume ~ 100 gallons a year that works out to a clean 10 minutes a year of my life wasted.
I would include all the time wasted waiting for credit card approval but I buy a gas gift card every 6 months or so. They come with a ~ 8-10% discount and are approved by the fueling station very quickly.

I wish my view of ICE vehicles was as uncluttered and as much unwasted time of my life. Wasted, yes. Back in the sixties we spent longer times at the pump due to shortages; got gas every other day based on an odd or even ending licence plate ~ not sure who was keeping us honest. Also, it was not until 1983 did we see a fuel taker capable of refueling our military vehicles faster than gravity. In addition, I am not sure when we stopped using a fine brass screen to filter out contaminates in the fuel for our jeeps. Problem with the screens was that the pot heads would steal the screen for smoking their hasheesh, but that was Vietnam era for you. Anyway, my battery received the first HEMMT fuel tanker in Europe in summer of 1983 capable of pumping fuel extremely fast; the truck was extremely fast too. I got a warning from a General because my HEMMT fuel truck was clocked at 90 MPH on the autobahn; it apparently did not matter that my battery and I were not even in country at the time of the incident. Direct support had picked it up from the train depot and was in the process of transporting it to the staging location where my people would sign for it and all the rest of our gear. I also had the very first survey GPS team. My GPS was loaded/fitted into what used to be the back seat of a jeep. Oh, and all of my rocket launchers had computers and a GPS. We had a wireless intranet, not Internet, for secure communications.

Now however, the only wasted time at a gas station is when I barrow my son-in-laws pickup and return it to him with a full tank.

FYI ~ it took me years to convince my wife we only needed one car; it took arm twisting to convince her to move from the M3 to the MX ~ in other words we would still be saving for a M3 or MS while keeping the pickup truck. Yes, we had to make adjustments, but that has been squared away with syncing our calendars thru iPhones. Now between the calendar app and Tesla app I know exactly where she is and at what speed she is traveling Oh, it works both ways:-(

PS ~ My battery was to have had the first HUMMVs too, but production delays meant I got new jeeps instead:-( Does anyone care about the production delay of the HUMMVs? No and neither do I about the Tesla delays, if I did, I would not be driving an MX! Love my 100D MX It is like taking this rocket man to a whole new level

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

And I just LOVE breathing fuel tank vapors while filling. Standing in the sun during the fill is another fun aspect - esp in the summer. I get to have conversations with fellow fillers that allows me to meet interesting folks that I would otherwise never encounter - like those who drive into the stall backwards, cut in line, drive off with hose still attached, try to fill spare cans in the back seat. Not a weirdo in the bunch. No a minute of wasted of time at all. Can I have more, please?

 

[Merrill]

I do not care that it takes longer to charge my Tesla's than fill my F-150, I hate going to the gas station and supporting the petroleum companies. If Tesla made an affordable pick-up I would have it, at some point I thought of just getting a dump trailer but that is a pain to deal with. I drive about 2000 miles a year in the Ford, so not a lot of gas and pollution but still hate going to the gas station. I to was in the gas shortage in the early 70's commuting to college and working full time, had to carry a gas can to deal with the every other day thing and long lines at the pump. Cannot wait for the adoption of affordable all electric cars, I have friends that are retired and still want to drive to LA without stopping. Don't you have to eat or go to the bathroom? I still work on them to go electric, none of them are car freaks like me but maybe someday they will figure it out.