Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[SageBrush]

So if peak load is from 10:00-21:00, and solar is most effective from 10:00-18:00, this won't have any grid impact? Sounds to me as if it's FUD from vested interests.

Peak load is often ~ 5pm to 9pm or thereabouts. From 5pm, well sited PV power is a small fraction of mid-day. I was surprised to find that even west-facing panels have a dramatic drop in power after 5pm.* And in terms of demand load the west facing panels are no mitigation at all because the peak load continues well past the time the sun is over the horizon.

I hope you realize that I am as pro PV as they come; I am only pointing out that the utility argument is not complete BS

*based on PVwatts data by the hour.

 

[nwdiver]

I have thought this too, and it is part of the reason why I favor separate energy and demand charges on a bill.

I used to favor demand fees, especially as an alternative to production fees; But demand fees only incentivize reducing peak demand and not really load shifting. Sometimes high demand can be a good thing and not detrimental to the grid. I shouldn't be penalized for charging my Tesla at 20kW outside peak. IMO a stiff TOU during peak hours would be more effective and reasonable than a demand fee that applies 24/7. Although it would be fun to see the sticker shock from all the people with electric tankless water heaters #tankless_sucks #team_heatpump

The big problem I have with the utility argument is it's typically disingenuous. They use it as an excuse to punish solar instead of information to alter behavior. Coincident peak around here is ~4pm according to Xcel. At the rate case last year SPS went on and on and on about how solar doesn't not contribute to that peak sufficiently and so should pay more. Not once did they recommend any behavioral changes to improve that. Nothing about encouraging more west facing solar or incentives for storage or TOU to shift demand to earlier in the day or later at night.... Their goal is to create the conditions that they need to build more generators or transmission. (They were also off by >200% on the peak contribution of solar because they used PV watts and not actual data)


EDE-6 is what SPS(Xcel) claims solar contributed using PV Watts data. Roswell and Andrews is actual data from coincident peak. The reason it's so far off is because 4CP occurs under a very specific set of conditions one of which is usually sunnier than average weather. You can't use the average for that day and expect an accurate result. You can also see the impact of facing the panels more westward.

 

[JRP3]

We're getting off topic here but I do want to speak of my experience with snow and solar where we get 10 or 20 feet of snow a year. My pole mounted panels at 35 deg in winter shed snow within a day. Another set at 25 degrees sometimes takes a few days. Not really a problem.

Not a problem if you don't mind the reduced output for a few days, which could be a few more days depending on the weather.

 

[Merrill]

This is another complaint I have is when you see all the marketing the power companies do to get you to save energy, they say they want people to install solar and buy energy efficient appliances. Why not just say we need to find a way to charge you more so we can make more money.

 

[SageBrush]

(They were also off by >200% on the peak contribution of solar because they used PV watts and not actual data)

Hi Chris. Thanks for chiming in.

We have talked about this point before and I must be still skeptical since I have reverted back to PVwatts. I downloaded data for Albuquerque since Eunice was giving me a data download error. This graph is average and maximum (ever seen in the dataset) power by time of day during July for a 1.2 kW DC, 1.0 kW AC array pointed 225 degrees and inclined 20 degrees.

As an aside, the funny thing about the SPS case is that they could have picked 5 pm ... or 6 pm. I bet the peak load was not much different but the PV generation has dropped to half, and then a quarter of the 4 pm power.

 

[nwdiver]

As an aside, the funny thing about the SPS case is that they could have picked 5 pm ... or 6 pm. I bet the peak load was not much different but the PV generation has dropped to half, and then a quarter of the 4 pm power.

View attachment 419962

That's the thing about 4CP. It's not something that they 'pick'. It's the peak load on the system. The peak for SPS occurs at ~4pm and the four highest peaks are the four days I posted. The rate case was amusing because one of the commissioners said we just picked to 4 best solar days.... the dates and time were provided by SPS which they collected from their load data....

 

[WannabeOwner]

20 yrs ago I had PV installed

Hats off to you Sir

 

[SageBrush]

That's the thing about 4CP. It's not something that they 'pick'. It's the peak load on the system. The peak for SPS occurs at ~4pm and the four highest peaks are the four days I posted. The rate case was amusing because one of the commissioners said we just picked to 4 best solar days.... the dates and time were provided by SPS which they collected from their load data....

Understood, but the SPS argument was really (though they did not realize it) about the fractional contribution of residential PV to demand charges.

I have heard this before from a utility manager: they find the peak and ignore the rest of the day. I tried to explain that the peak has to thought of marginally but they live in a peak tower. For them the peak sets the charge and everything else is free. While true that the peak sets the charge, the remainder is not free since complete removal of the peak leaves most of the demand charges intact because the next highest coincident peak comes into play.

 

[SageBrush]

IMO a stiff TOU during peak hours would be more effective and reasonable than a demand fee that applies 24/7

For sure. The demand fee schedules I am aware of apply to peak times. TOU schedules exist to reduce utility demand charges, not to reduce consumption per se.

 

[JRP3]

I'm sure this is just fine

The Greenland ice sheet is melting unusually fast

 

[mspohr]

Not a problem if you don't mind the reduced output for a few days, which could be a few more days depending on the weather.

I don't count on much solar in Winter. Losing a few days isn't a problem. Even good winter days are only about 30% of summer.

 

[mspohr]

Heat to smash records every year across vast swathes of Earth

Using 22 climate models, Scott Power and François Delage at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology in Melbourne analysed the rate at which monthly temperatures are likely to reach unprecedented levels over the course of the twenty-first century. They found that if emissions continue to rise rapidly, around 58% of Earth’s surface will experience record temperatures every year.

The researchers’ results show that, during the pre-industrial era, temperature records were exceeded by more than 1ºC across just 0.4% of Earth’s surface each year. These anomalies occurred as a result of natural fluctuations. But if emissions continue to soar, temperature records will be smashed by that amount across nearly 9% of the planet’s surface annually.

 

[mspohr]

Carbon capture storage that is cheap and which works

Can planting billions of trees save the planet?

Can planting billions of trees save the planet?

She is not alone. The global elite is embracing tree-hugging rhetoric. It is as if the world has suddenly woken up to the restorative powers of plants.

Forests can stop runaway global heating, encourage rainfall, guarantee clean water, reduce air pollution, and provide livelihoods for local people and reserves for rare wildlife. Politicians are waking up to the potential of “natural climate solutions” – reforestation and other ecological restoration – to capture carbon and tackle the climate crisis. Such solutions could provide 37% of the greenhouse gas mitigation required to provide a good chance of stabilising global heating below the critical 2C threshold.

 

[mspohr]

Chennai in crisis as authorities blamed for dire water shortage

Chennai in crisis as authorities blamed for dire water shortage

The four reservoirs supplying the bulk of the city’s drinking water have completely dried up, leading the Chennai Metro Water to cut the water it provides by about 40%.

The crisis in India’s sixth largest city comes as the country struggles to deal with a heatwave that has caused dozens of deaths. Temperatures reached 48C near the airport in Delhi last week and above 50C in Rajasthan.

 

[mspohr]

Scientists shocked by Arctic permafrost thawing 70 years sooner than predicted

Scientists shocked by Arctic permafrost thawing 70 years sooner than predicted

Permafrost at outposts in the Canadian Arctic is thawing 70 years earlier than predicted, an expedition has discovered, in the latest sign that the global climate crisis is accelerating even faster than scientists had feared.

 

[ggies07]

I really can't take much more of this *sugar* form the EPA. I'm exhausted from their stupidity and the public's willingness to go along with it.

EPA rolls back Obama-era plan limiting coal emissions - CNNPolitics

"One of the President's first acts in office was to issue an executive order to promote energy independence. In it, he instructed EPA to rescind, replace or revise the Clean Power Plan."

 

[winfield100]

I really can't take much more of this *sugar* form the EPA. I'm exhausted from their stupidity and the public's willingness to go along with it.

EPA rolls back Obama-era plan limiting coal emissions - CNNPolitics

it's not the EPA, it's the OI in charge of whose in charge

 

[mspohr]

Spy satellites reveal rapid Himalayan glacier melt

Over one generation, the melt has doubled and these glaciers are now shrinking fast.

"Why does this matter? Because when the ice runs out, some of Asia's most important rivers will lose a water supply that keeps them flowing through drought summers, just when water is at its most valuable.

Scientists compared photographs taken by a US reconnaissance programme with recent spacecraft observations and found that melting in the region has doubled over the last 40 years

 

[mspohr]

Seawalls to protect US against rising oceans could cost $416bn by 2040

Seawalls to protect US against rising oceans could cost $416bn by 2040

Defending against rising seas could cost US communities $416bn in the next 20 years, according to a new report.

Spending on seawalls alone could total almost as much as the initial investment in the interstate highway system, the authors said. And the billions involved will represent just a fraction of adaptation efforts governments in coastal states will have to fund if they do not want to simply retreat.

 

[cpa]

UC Cooperative Extension is researching methods to capture CO2 from the atmosphere. They are working with CSU, UC Labs, SC, and Stanford in-state, and there is a small group of research institutions in other states doing similarly.

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Maybe this is a very small step in the right direction.