SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The wrong direction. It will be so much more expensive than not dumping it in the first place
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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion
- Thread starter Raffy.Roma
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- Energy Environment Policy
I don’t think it’s the wrong direction, per se, unless people use it as an excuse to keep doing what we’re doing. Do both - continue to reduce emissions but at some point in the future, we may find that some kind of capture is necessary regardless of efficiency or cost.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Indeed, that is the problem.
Just take a peek at the fossil companies messaging these days.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
More insight into oil company motivation. Tax credits and the ability to pump more oil.
CARBON CAPTURE: Big Oil looks to CCS, but will it really help the climate?
In February of last year, Congress passed the Furthering Carbon Capture, Utilization, Technology, Underground Storage and Reduced Emissions Act, which amped up the tax credits known as 45Q, named after the section of the U.S. tax code in which they reside.
Under the plan, companies will be able to claim $35 per ton of CO2 captured and then used for enhanced oil recovery, up from $10 under the older version of the credit. Projects that inject it into underground storage fields without using it for EOR will get $50 per ton. Air capture projects also are now eligible.
Even before the 45Q eligibility process has been finalized, Oxy has been one of the most aggressive oil companies to pursue the credits. It set up a new division, Oxy Low Carbon Ventures, to fund carbon capture projects, and in the last year, it has announced several carbon capture deals
Experts also disagree on whether using carbon dioxide to produce more oil would actually reduce the amount of the gas in the atmosphere. To get net reductions, producers would have to use CO2 that is captured directly from the air or take steps to avoid double-counting the CO2 at both the smokestack and the injection site. They also need to ensure captured gas remains sequestered over the long term.
"There's no such thing as carbon capture — it makes problems worse" because it can increase overall air pollution and because it diverts resources from renewable energy, said Mark Jacobson, a professor at Stanford University who's best known for a study outlining that wind, solar and hydropower could provide the world's energy needs.
CARBON CAPTURE: Big Oil looks to CCS, but will it really help the climate?
In February of last year, Congress passed the Furthering Carbon Capture, Utilization, Technology, Underground Storage and Reduced Emissions Act, which amped up the tax credits known as 45Q, named after the section of the U.S. tax code in which they reside.
Under the plan, companies will be able to claim $35 per ton of CO2 captured and then used for enhanced oil recovery, up from $10 under the older version of the credit. Projects that inject it into underground storage fields without using it for EOR will get $50 per ton. Air capture projects also are now eligible.
Even before the 45Q eligibility process has been finalized, Oxy has been one of the most aggressive oil companies to pursue the credits. It set up a new division, Oxy Low Carbon Ventures, to fund carbon capture projects, and in the last year, it has announced several carbon capture deals
Experts also disagree on whether using carbon dioxide to produce more oil would actually reduce the amount of the gas in the atmosphere. To get net reductions, producers would have to use CO2 that is captured directly from the air or take steps to avoid double-counting the CO2 at both the smokestack and the injection site. They also need to ensure captured gas remains sequestered over the long term.
"There's no such thing as carbon capture — it makes problems worse" because it can increase overall air pollution and because it diverts resources from renewable energy, said Mark Jacobson, a professor at Stanford University who's best known for a study outlining that wind, solar and hydropower could provide the world's energy needs.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Major global investor drops US firms deemed climate crisis laggards
Major global investor drops US firms deemed climate crisis laggards
An ethical investment operation by the UK’s largest asset manager has dumped shares in a string of US companies it has deemed climate crisis laggards, including oil giant ExxonMobil and insurer Metlife.
Legal and General Investment Management (LGIM) said it had cut five companies – ExxonMobil, Metlife, Spam maker Hormel Foods, US retailer Kroger and Korean Electric Power Corporation – from its umbrella of ethical investment funds worth a total of £5bn.
LGIM added the climate laggards to a list which already includes China Construction Bank, carmaker Subaru, Japan Post Holdings, Canadian retailer Loblaw, US food and service conglomerate Sysco Corporation and Russian oil giant Rosneft, which is part-owned by BP.
Major global investor drops US firms deemed climate crisis laggards
An ethical investment operation by the UK’s largest asset manager has dumped shares in a string of US companies it has deemed climate crisis laggards, including oil giant ExxonMobil and insurer Metlife.
Legal and General Investment Management (LGIM) said it had cut five companies – ExxonMobil, Metlife, Spam maker Hormel Foods, US retailer Kroger and Korean Electric Power Corporation – from its umbrella of ethical investment funds worth a total of £5bn.
LGIM added the climate laggards to a list which already includes China Construction Bank, carmaker Subaru, Japan Post Holdings, Canadian retailer Loblaw, US food and service conglomerate Sysco Corporation and Russian oil giant Rosneft, which is part-owned by BP.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Continental Europe braced for 'potentially dangerous' heatwave
Continental Europe braced for 'potentially dangerous' heatwave
Long-range weather forecasts show summer temperatures throughout July and August are expected to be higher than normal, rivalling those of 2018, which according to the European Environment Agency was one of the three warmest years on record on the continent.
Scientists have said last year’s heatwave, which led to increased mortality rates, a dramatic decline in crop yields, the shutdown of nuclear power plants and wildfires inside the Arctic Circle, was linked to the climate emergency and that extreme climate events are likely to be regular occurrences in the coming decades.
Continental Europe braced for 'potentially dangerous' heatwave
Long-range weather forecasts show summer temperatures throughout July and August are expected to be higher than normal, rivalling those of 2018, which according to the European Environment Agency was one of the three warmest years on record on the continent.
Scientists have said last year’s heatwave, which led to increased mortality rates, a dramatic decline in crop yields, the shutdown of nuclear power plants and wildfires inside the Arctic Circle, was linked to the climate emergency and that extreme climate events are likely to be regular occurrences in the coming decades.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
ExxonMobil's CO2 Sequestration Is Just A Tiny Fraction Of Its CO2 Emissions | CleanTechnica
ExxonMobil spins great PR hay out of its carbon straw. The company claims, reasonably enough, to be the global leader in getting rid of CO2. Like almost everything else in the carbon capture and sequestration space (CCS), the claims do not hold up to the slightest scrutiny.
First off, though, let’s look at 7 million tons per year of CO2. That sounds awesome, until you realize that the global problem is in the range of 3,200 billion excess tons of CO2 in the atmosphere. Yeah, regardless of how relatively well ExxonMobil does or doesn’t do compared to other CCS schemes, this is 6 orders of magnitude away from the scale of the problem.
There are a couple of interesting things here related to ExxonMobil’s claim. The first is that only 19 million tons of CO2 are being captured annually by the biggest CCS schemes in the world, so ExxonMobil is claiming 37% of that. Secondly, there are only 4 of 19 sites that aren’t actually enhanced oil recovery (EOR) sites.
What is that and why is it important? EOR with CO2 pumps CO2 underground in played out oil wells. That liquifies more of the sludge allowing more oil to be extracted. For every ton of CO2 pumped underground, a quarter ton comes back up. When that’s burned as the vast majority of oil is, it turns into about 0.8 tons of CO2, disregarding the upstream carbon-debt of capturing and transporting the CO2. That means that the 14 million tons used annually for EOR under claimed CCS programs are only sequestering about 2.8 million tons in the best case scenario.
As I pointed out in an assessment of ‘best’ CCS example in the world, the Norwegian non-EOR Sleipner CCS facility, the natural gas the CO2 is extracted from turns into 25 times the CO2 sequestered.
So what does this all net out to? Yes, there’s the a grain of truth in what ExxonMobil says. It is pretty much the biggest carbon sequestration organization in the world, the way that those organizations count things, which is pretty lame.
But the company excludes any reference to the scale of the problem that it specifically is creating. And it excludes any reference to the larger scale of the problem, of which it is a small part. And it doesn’t provide context for the CO2 scale compared to the scale of the emissions that it is responsible for.
ExxonMobil’s CCS claims are PR nonsense, designed in multiple ways to confuse and dissemble, allowing it the social license to keep on pumping oil and causing global warming. Unsurprisingly.
ExxonMobil spins great PR hay out of its carbon straw. The company claims, reasonably enough, to be the global leader in getting rid of CO2. Like almost everything else in the carbon capture and sequestration space (CCS), the claims do not hold up to the slightest scrutiny.
First off, though, let’s look at 7 million tons per year of CO2. That sounds awesome, until you realize that the global problem is in the range of 3,200 billion excess tons of CO2 in the atmosphere. Yeah, regardless of how relatively well ExxonMobil does or doesn’t do compared to other CCS schemes, this is 6 orders of magnitude away from the scale of the problem.
There are a couple of interesting things here related to ExxonMobil’s claim. The first is that only 19 million tons of CO2 are being captured annually by the biggest CCS schemes in the world, so ExxonMobil is claiming 37% of that. Secondly, there are only 4 of 19 sites that aren’t actually enhanced oil recovery (EOR) sites.
What is that and why is it important? EOR with CO2 pumps CO2 underground in played out oil wells. That liquifies more of the sludge allowing more oil to be extracted. For every ton of CO2 pumped underground, a quarter ton comes back up. When that’s burned as the vast majority of oil is, it turns into about 0.8 tons of CO2, disregarding the upstream carbon-debt of capturing and transporting the CO2. That means that the 14 million tons used annually for EOR under claimed CCS programs are only sequestering about 2.8 million tons in the best case scenario.
As I pointed out in an assessment of ‘best’ CCS example in the world, the Norwegian non-EOR Sleipner CCS facility, the natural gas the CO2 is extracted from turns into 25 times the CO2 sequestered.
So what does this all net out to? Yes, there’s the a grain of truth in what ExxonMobil says. It is pretty much the biggest carbon sequestration organization in the world, the way that those organizations count things, which is pretty lame.
But the company excludes any reference to the scale of the problem that it specifically is creating. And it excludes any reference to the larger scale of the problem, of which it is a small part. And it doesn’t provide context for the CO2 scale compared to the scale of the emissions that it is responsible for.
ExxonMobil’s CCS claims are PR nonsense, designed in multiple ways to confuse and dissemble, allowing it the social license to keep on pumping oil and causing global warming. Unsurprisingly.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Upset about the plastic crisis? Stop trying so hard
Upset about the plastic crisis? Stop trying so hard
Just as the most effective technique for weight loss is to eat less, the most effective technique for reducing our environmental impact is to produce or consume less. There is no greener packaging than no packaging. No trip is greener than the one we didn’t make. No product is greener than the one we didn’t buy. When it comes to the environment, one of the most powerful and effective paths to sustainability appears to be inaction.
Upset about the plastic crisis? Stop trying so hard
Just as the most effective technique for weight loss is to eat less, the most effective technique for reducing our environmental impact is to produce or consume less. There is no greener packaging than no packaging. No trip is greener than the one we didn’t make. No product is greener than the one we didn’t buy. When it comes to the environment, one of the most powerful and effective paths to sustainability appears to be inaction.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
mspohr
Well-Known Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Absolutely. I fully embrace the idea of not using one-time use plastic, but the tenor of the article you posted rubbed me the wrong way since clean-up is *really* important.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I too had my doubts about the article. It did have a good point. Stop consuming, pumping oil, etc.
But we do have a big clean up with all the plastic and CO2 we have generated.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Survival Stories: How Do we Write our Own? - Resilience
Rather, what the world needs is narrative. Communication. Stories about the future that cast each listener as a protagonist, whose values and most cherished parts of life are put up to the ball of fire in the sky to be illuminated in full – and burn, if kept there unprotected.
The power of narrative to affect human action has long been known. Gods are worshipped, wars are fought, leaders are elected and fortunes are spent because of what they represent. Socrates, in Plato’s The Republic, proclaimed stories as the most powerful way to educate. Aristotle penned an entire work, Poetics, on the power and components of a story. “The plot, then, is the first principle, and, as it were, the soul of a tragedy; Character holds the second place,” he wrote.
Any action on climate change is better than none. But there remains a deep and terrifyingly dark chasm between the magnitude of effort to slow the changes we incur and the gravity of the destruction toward which we’re surely headed.
Rather, what the world needs is narrative. Communication. Stories about the future that cast each listener as a protagonist, whose values and most cherished parts of life are put up to the ball of fire in the sky to be illuminated in full – and burn, if kept there unprotected.
The power of narrative to affect human action has long been known. Gods are worshipped, wars are fought, leaders are elected and fortunes are spent because of what they represent. Socrates, in Plato’s The Republic, proclaimed stories as the most powerful way to educate. Aristotle penned an entire work, Poetics, on the power and components of a story. “The plot, then, is the first principle, and, as it were, the soul of a tragedy; Character holds the second place,” he wrote.
Any action on climate change is better than none. But there remains a deep and terrifyingly dark chasm between the magnitude of effort to slow the changes we incur and the gravity of the destruction toward which we’re surely headed.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
‘Climate apartheid’: UN expert says human rights may not survive
‘Climate apartheid’: UN expert says human rights may not survive
The world is increasingly at risk of “climate apartheid”, where the rich pay to escape heat and hunger caused by the escalating climate crisis while the rest of the world suffers, a report from a UN human rights expert has said.
Alston is critical of the “patently inadequate” steps taken by the UN itself, countries, NGOs and businesses, saying they are “entirely disproportionate to the urgency and magnitude of the threat”. His report to the UN human rights council (HRC) concludes: “Human rights might not survive the coming upheaval.”
“Climate change threatens to undo the last 50 years of progress in development, global health, and poverty reduction,” Alston said. Developing countries will bear an estimated 75% of the costs of the climate crisis, the report said, despite the poorest half of the world’s population causing just 10% of carbon dioxide emissions.
‘Climate apartheid’: UN expert says human rights may not survive
The world is increasingly at risk of “climate apartheid”, where the rich pay to escape heat and hunger caused by the escalating climate crisis while the rest of the world suffers, a report from a UN human rights expert has said.
Alston is critical of the “patently inadequate” steps taken by the UN itself, countries, NGOs and businesses, saying they are “entirely disproportionate to the urgency and magnitude of the threat”. His report to the UN human rights council (HRC) concludes: “Human rights might not survive the coming upheaval.”
“Climate change threatens to undo the last 50 years of progress in development, global health, and poverty reduction,” Alston said. Developing countries will bear an estimated 75% of the costs of the climate crisis, the report said, despite the poorest half of the world’s population causing just 10% of carbon dioxide emissions.
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